Need advice big time.

[Rachel]

Hi guys.

I applied to Liverpool John Moores, along with UCL and Liverpool through
UCAS for entry in September. My Firm choice is Applied Psychology BSc at
John Moores and my Insurance is Psychology with Sociology at the same uni.

However I have a bit of a problem.

When I applied, I was having a lot of problems at home and wanted to move
quite far away. Liverpool is 3 hours away from my home town. Things are a
lot better now (we had some serious problems) and even though I know I'll
make friends and all that when I'm there, I can't bear the thought of 3
years in Liverpool.

I know I'm stupidly very late indeed to come to realise this.

I emailed Leeds Met, which is the nearest uni to me that does Applied Psych
and asked about 2nd year transfers - they said they rarely accept them but
they would consider it.

I'm dreading going to uni in Liverpool and leaving my friends and family
here. I know I'd get used to it, but I don't want to spend 3 years there.
I'd be willing to transfer after doing my first year, but Leeds Met seems
the best and perhaps only good choice. They don't seem too keen though.

I haven't sent off my student loan form yet.

Is there anything I can do at this late stage? I think I'll get the grades
that my offers requested, so am I right in saying that once I do, I can't
turn down the course? Can I apply to Leeds Met right now?

Please help.

Thanks..
Rachel.

[Rachel]

Post by Rachel
Hi guys.
I applied to Liverpool John Moores, along with UCL and Liverpool through
UCAS for entry in September. My Firm choice is Applied Psychology BSc at
John Moores and my Insurance is Psychology with Sociology at the same uni.
However I have a bit of a problem.
When I applied, I was having a lot of problems at home and wanted to move
quite far away. Liverpool is 3 hours away from my home town. Things are a
lot better now (we had some serious problems) and even though I know I'll
make friends and all that when I'm there, I can't bear the thought of 3
years in Liverpool.
I know I'm stupidly very late indeed to come to realise this.
I emailed Leeds Met, which is the nearest uni to me that does Applied Psych
and asked about 2nd year transfers - they said they rarely accept them but
they would consider it.
I'm dreading going to uni in Liverpool and leaving my friends and family
here. I know I'd get used to it, but I don't want to spend 3 years there.
I'd be willing to transfer after doing my first year, but Leeds Met seems
the best and perhaps only good choice. They don't seem too keen though.
I haven't sent off my student loan form yet.
Is there anything I can do at this late stage? I think I'll get the grades
that my offers requested, so am I right in saying that once I do, I can't
turn down the course? Can I apply to Leeds Met right now?
Please help.
Thanks..
Rachel.

Just a follow up, Liverpool JM say they will release me if I want, but Leeds
Met is full up for 2005 entry for Applied Psychology.

[Matthew Huntbach]

Post by Rachel
I applied to Liverpool John Moores, along with UCL and Liverpool through
UCAS for entry in September. My Firm choice is Applied Psychology BSc at
John Moores and my Insurance is Psychology with Sociology at the same uni.
However I have a bit of a problem.
When I applied, I was having a lot of problems at home and wanted to move
quite far away. Liverpool is 3 hours away from my home town. Things are a
lot better now (we had some serious problems) and even though I know I'll
make friends and all that when I'm there, I can't bear the thought of 3
years in Liverpool.
I know I'm stupidly very late indeed to come to realise this.
I emailed Leeds Met, which is the nearest uni to me that does Applied Psych
and asked about 2nd year transfers - they said they rarely accept them but
they would consider it.
I'm dreading going to uni in Liverpool and leaving my friends and family
here. I know I'd get used to it, but I don't want to spend 3 years there.
I'd be willing to transfer after doing my first year, but Leeds Met seems
the best and perhaps only good choice. They don't seem too keen though.
I haven't sent off my student loan form yet.
Is there anything I can do at this late stage? I think I'll get the grades
that my offers requested, so am I right in saying that once I do, I can't
turn down the course? Can I apply to Leeds Met right now?

The normal situation is that your UCAS Firm and Insurance acceptances
are a commitment. They are not obliged to release you, and nowhere
else can take you under the UCAS system until you have been released.
You only have the right to withdraw from UCAS altogether and start
again for application in the next academic year. It sounds harsh, but
from the point of view of admissions tutors it's how they can guarantee
their departments' classes will be full. If applicants had the right
to drop out and apply elsewhere at the last moment, there would be
the danger that come September a department find half the applicants
it was expecting have dropped out, it is too late to recruits any more,
and he department faces beiong closed down due to not having enough
students.

However, if there are good personal reasons which have arisen since you
made your Firm and Insurance choices, you can be released from those
choices. What this means is that you are put in the same situation as
someone who did not make the grades for their Firm and Insurance
choices i.e. you are in Clearing. I know that Psychology is a popular
subject, but I doubt that at a university like Leeds Met they'd be
so oversubscribed that they wouldn't possibly consider a clearing
application. Contact them and ask, if they say they would, contact
Liverpool JM and ask to be released. Make sure that to both universities
you have a good clear story that shows you are not doing this on a whim
but have thought through it carefully and things really have changed
permanently in a way that makes going to university at home the best
option when it wasn't previously.

On the idea of transferring to the 2nd year, the reason universities
are wary about it is that university degrees are not like A-levels.
With A-levels there's a national syllabus, and as long as you keep
to teh same examination board what will be taught in one place will
be much the same as what will be taught in another. University
departments, however, devise their own syllabuses and set their own
exams. Just because a degree has the same title in one university as in
another doesn't mean it will have the same content. So the 1st year of
a degree in one university may nit becessarily cover the material
that is necessary for the 2nd year of a degree at another, even if the
degrees have the same names.

However, my personal advice would be that going away from home
to university is a very good thing. If you stay at home with the friends
you had at school and living with your family, in some ways you'll
always remain a kid. If you go away, you'll learn to become an adult.
Sure, it's scary, but sometimes we have to do scary things to grow up.

Matthew Huntbach

[Rachel]

Post by Matthew Huntbach

Post by Rachel
I applied to Liverpool John Moores, along with UCL and Liverpool through
UCAS for entry in September. My Firm choice is Applied Psychology BSc at
John Moores and my Insurance is Psychology with Sociology at the same uni.
However I have a bit of a problem.
When I applied, I was having a lot of problems at home and wanted to move
quite far away. Liverpool is 3 hours away from my home town. Things are a
lot better now (we had some serious problems) and even though I know I'll
make friends and all that when I'm there, I can't bear the thought of 3
years in Liverpool.
I know I'm stupidly very late indeed to come to realise this.
I emailed Leeds Met, which is the nearest uni to me that does Applied Psych
and asked about 2nd year transfers - they said they rarely accept them but
they would consider it.
I'm dreading going to uni in Liverpool and leaving my friends and family
here. I know I'd get used to it, but I don't want to spend 3 years there.
I'd be willing to transfer after doing my first year, but Leeds Met seems
the best and perhaps only good choice. They don't seem too keen though.
I haven't sent off my student loan form yet.
Is there anything I can do at this late stage? I think I'll get the grades
that my offers requested, so am I right in saying that once I do, I can't
turn down the course? Can I apply to Leeds Met right now?

The normal situation is that your UCAS Firm and Insurance acceptances
are a commitment. They are not obliged to release you, and nowhere
else can take you under the UCAS system until you have been released.
You only have the right to withdraw from UCAS altogether and start
again for application in the next academic year. It sounds harsh, but
from the point of view of admissions tutors it's how they can guarantee
their departments' classes will be full. If applicants had the right
to drop out and apply elsewhere at the last moment, there would be
the danger that come September a department find half the applicants
it was expecting have dropped out, it is too late to recruits any more,
and he department faces beiong closed down due to not having enough
students.
However, if there are good personal reasons which have arisen since you
made your Firm and Insurance choices, you can be released from those
choices. What this means is that you are put in the same situation as
someone who did not make the grades for their Firm and Insurance
choices i.e. you are in Clearing. I know that Psychology is a popular
subject, but I doubt that at a university like Leeds Met they'd be
so oversubscribed that they wouldn't possibly consider a clearing
application. Contact them and ask, if they say they would, contact
Liverpool JM and ask to be released. Make sure that to both universities
you have a good clear story that shows you are not doing this on a whim
but have thought through it carefully and things really have changed
permanently in a way that makes going to university at home the best
option when it wasn't previously.
On the idea of transferring to the 2nd year, the reason universities
are wary about it is that university degrees are not like A-levels.
With A-levels there's a national syllabus, and as long as you keep
to teh same examination board what will be taught in one place will
be much the same as what will be taught in another. University
departments, however, devise their own syllabuses and set their own
exams. Just because a degree has the same title in one university as in
another doesn't mean it will have the same content. So the 1st year of
a degree in one university may nit becessarily cover the material
that is necessary for the 2nd year of a degree at another, even if the
degrees have the same names.
However, my personal advice would be that going away from home
to university is a very good thing. If you stay at home with the friends
you had at school and living with your family, in some ways you'll
always remain a kid. If you go away, you'll learn to become an adult.
Sure, it's scary, but sometimes we have to do scary things to grow up.
Matthew Huntbach

Thanks for your reply Matthew.

Since I made the post I've made a bit of headway. I can't do Applied
Psychology at Leeds Met, however they have some courses like Applied
Criminology with Psychology, which still have places and are being processed
through UCAS Extra.

I fully agree with you about moving away from home - Leeds is an hour away
from home for me anyway so it's not as if I'd be returning home for the
washing or anything ;)

Anyway, the situation now is that I've had confirmation that Liverpool JM
will release me from the Firm and Insurance choices, making me free to apply
to Leeds Met. I'm waiting on the Admissions Tutor from Leeds Met to email me
back and confirm that they will be able to offer me a spot. Then I will get
the acceptances cancelled so I can apply.

Phew. Hope it works out...........

Rachel

[Dr A. N. Walker]

In article <nDAre.22906$***@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>,
Rachel <[e-mail]> wrote:

[Matthew has given a good answer, most of the following is
just supporting him.]

Post by Rachel
I'm dreading going to uni in Liverpool and leaving my friends and family
here.

First, whatever else happens in your life, do *not* start
your university career in that frame of mind. University is a
positive experience. It *should* be the best three years of your
entire life. The *very* best. The time when you do things you
want to do, have the freedom to start new hobbies/sports/interests,
make new friends you will keep for the rest of your life, learn
all sorts of things [not all academic], work hard [if you have any
sense] *and* play hard, and turn from a schoolchild into an adult.
A real adult, someone playing a full part in society and making
informed decisions about your life and career, not just someone
who happens to be over 18.

Starting those three years determined to be a disaster is
bound to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Anyone would think that Liverpool is the back of beyond.
You can go home every Friday evening, travel back to L'pool every
Sunday, and scarcely blink, if that's what you really want to do.
Go by train and get piles of work done .... But you would be much
better advised to start living your own life. Go home when there
is a good reason -- birthdays, laundry, important footie match, etc
-- and otherwise make your new friends and social life in L'pool.

Post by Rachel
I know I'd get used to it, but I don't want to spend 3 years there.

Well, that's not very nice to Liverpool! It's a great city,
enjoy it.

Post by Rachel
I'd be willing to transfer after doing my first year, but Leeds Met seems
the best and perhaps only good choice. They don't seem too keen though.

Not surprised. "I'm determined to be a misery-guts and
leave my first-choice univ after a year, please take me." It
isn't as though there are [from their point of view] good reasons
for your change of mind. Matthew has given the academic reasons.

Post by Rachel
Is there anything I can do at this late stage? I think I'll get the grades
that my offers requested, so am I right in saying that once I do, I can't
turn down the course? Can I apply to Leeds Met right now?

As Matthew implies, you entered into a legal contract with
LJM when you firmly accepted their offer. *They* don't want you as
a student if you are going to mope around the place being a pain,
so as a matter of fact and plain common sense they will release you
into Clearing, after which LMU can, if they choose, pick you up.
But that's their choice, not your right.

[Rachel]

Post by Dr A. N. Walker
[Matthew has given a good answer, most of the following is
just supporting him.]

Post by Rachel
I'm dreading going to uni in Liverpool and leaving my friends and family
here.

First, whatever else happens in your life, do *not* start
your university career in that frame of mind. University is a
positive experience. It *should* be the best three years of your
entire life. The *very* best. The time when you do things you
want to do, have the freedom to start new hobbies/sports/interests,
make new friends you will keep for the rest of your life, learn
all sorts of things [not all academic], work hard [if you have any
sense] *and* play hard, and turn from a schoolchild into an adult.
A real adult, someone playing a full part in society and making
informed decisions about your life and career, not just someone
who happens to be over 18.
Starting those three years determined to be a disaster is
bound to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Anyone would think that Liverpool is the back of beyond.
You can go home every Friday evening, travel back to L'pool every
Sunday, and scarcely blink, if that's what you really want to do.
Go by train and get piles of work done .... But you would be much
better advised to start living your own life. Go home when there
is a good reason -- birthdays, laundry, important footie match, etc
-- and otherwise make your new friends and social life in L'pool.

Post by Rachel
I know I'd get used to it, but I don't want to spend 3 years there.

Well, that's not very nice to Liverpool! It's a great city,
enjoy it.

Post by Rachel
I'd be willing to transfer after doing my first year, but Leeds Met seems
the best and perhaps only good choice. They don't seem too keen though.

Not surprised. "I'm determined to be a misery-guts and
leave my first-choice univ after a year, please take me." It
isn't as though there are [from their point of view] good reasons
for your change of mind. Matthew has given the academic reasons.

Post by Rachel
Is there anything I can do at this late stage? I think I'll get the grades
that my offers requested, so am I right in saying that once I do, I can't
turn down the course? Can I apply to Leeds Met right now?

As Matthew implies, you entered into a legal contract with
LJM when you firmly accepted their offer. *They* don't want you as
a student if you are going to mope around the place being a pain,
so as a matter of fact and plain common sense they will release you
into Clearing, after which LMU can, if they choose, pick you up.
But that's their choice, not your right.
--
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.

Thanks for your reply, I've replied to Matthew's post saying what's happened
since my original posting.

I'd like to add that you've given very good advice. However I'm not a
"misery guts" or a pain, or a moper. I don't want to be too far away from
home for many reasons, a lot of which are my friends, family, and partner,
another is that my father is rather unwell at the moment and I'd like to be
able to visit him more often before the inevitable happens. Leeds is still
an hour away from my home town. Liverpool is 3 hours away, and over £30 each
time in fares (that's including the railcard discount). I like Liverpool,
it's a nice city. Leeds just seems the right choice at the moment.

Rachel.

[Dr A. N. Walker]

[...] I don't want to be too far away from
home for many reasons, a lot of which are my friends, family, and partner,

I know this may be hard for you to accept, but those are
not good reasons. Well, they might be if you lived in Cornwall
and had, in some fit of insanity, accepted a place in NScotland
or the Gobi Desert, or some such. But Yorkshire and Lancashire
are adjacent counties!

another is that my father is rather unwell at the moment and I'd like to be
able to visit him more often before the inevitable happens.

This, on the other hand, *is* a good reason. Most, I
would hope all, universities bend over backwards to accommodate
"compassionate" cases. In this sort of case, a switch from
L'pool to somewhere near your home [and even nearer than Leeds,
if there is any such univ] makes a lot of sense. It sounds as
though your change of course is well under way, but if there
are any problems with the process, this sort of info will make
people much more sympathetic.

Good luck.

[T.]

Post by Dr A. N. Walker
First, whatever else happens in your life, do *not* start
your university career in that frame of mind. University is a
positive experience. It *should* be the best three years of your
entire life. The *very* best. The time when you do things you
want to do, have the freedom to start new hobbies/sports/interests,
make new friends you will keep for the rest of your life, learn
all sorts of things [not all academic], work hard [if you have any
sense] *and* play hard, and turn from a schoolchild into an adult.
A real adult, someone playing a full part in society and making
informed decisions about your life and career, not just someone
who happens to be over 18.

*wow* - That one paragraph sums up exactly what I _try_ and tell others
about my views on "why Uni" etc. Personally though, the line of study
means nothing to me - it's just a degree.

Also, I haven't started yet, but I feel that some of my friends that
have just completed their first year haven't (and probably won't) take
any/full advantage of all the opportunties Uni offers. In fact, some of
them are at Nottingham.