Postgrad

[Richard Magrath]

While I'm here, and my computer is working, I thought I might take
this opportunity to ask a few questions about postgraduate stuff that
have been on my mind. I would ask my Director of Studies, but I'm
afraid he might think I'm jumping the gun somewhat.

So:

1. How much does a PhD cost? Would it be possible to live *and* pay
off the fees with a combination of an AHRB grant and money made from
tutoring and whatnot?

2. Could I change subject? For example, could I do historical research
after an English degree? Could I become a marine biologist?

3. Would I need a first?

4. Would I have to do a M.A. or (1-year) M.Phil. first?

5. Is a PhD only useful for an academic career? Or would it help me
get a job as a museum curator, BBC programme researcher, Master of a
public school, etc.?

6. Is it true that unis look favourably upon people who've done some
real world work since their undergraduate degree, as they are less
likely to treat it as a doss?

and the most important one

7. Do they give you a topic to research, or do you choose one
yourself? I would guess the former, given what I've heard about them
interviewing candidates and so on, but on the other hand I remember
someone here (I think it was JHP) saying that he had to talk some
students out of doing overly-ambitious work for their PhD and into
something more manageable.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Richard

[Matthew Huntbach]

Post by Richard Magrath
1. How much does a PhD cost? Would it be possible to live *and* pay
off the fees with a combination of an AHRB grant and money made from
tutoring and whatnot?

When I did one, the grant was equivalent to an undergraduate grant plus it
paid the fees. I'm not sure what the situation is now, but I think it's
something similar. So you can live off it, but not comfortably.
In the sciences it's often the case you have a paid job as a Research
Assistant while registered for a PhD, I'm not sure that is so common in the
Arts.

Post by Richard Magrath
2. Could I change subject? For example, could I do historical research
after an English degree? Could I become a marine biologist?

To do a PhD in marine biolgy you'd presumably have to know a lot of marine
biology, so almost certainly no in this case. However, there may well be
some aspect of history that follows on from some aspect of Englsih you have
studied, so possibly yes in that ase.

Post by Richard Magrath
3. Would I need a first?

Academics are desperate to get people to do PhDs in order to help their
research. So getting a PhD place is no problem, a good 2.i may well be
sufficient. Getting a grant is the difficulty. If the number of people with
first trying to get PhD grants is greater than the number of PhD grants,
then obviously having a first helps.

Post by Richard Magrath
4. Would I have to do a M.A. or (1-year) M.Phil. first?

The MPhil is almost always an award for a failed PhD (given to someone who
has done a good background study but not come up with anything new) i.e. not a
qualification in its own right. An MA may be helpful, it isn't essential.

Post by Richard Magrath
5. Is a PhD only useful for an academic career? Or would it help me
get a job as a museum curator, BBC programme researcher, Master of a
public school, etc.?

A PhD is a qualification awarded for doing a lengthy piece of research.
It isn't a general advanced qualification in a subject, since the research
will just be in a tiny subfield of that subject. I guess it would be helpful
for actual research jobs, I'm not sure about Master of a public school
however (I guess for that you have to go through being a teacher i.e.
getting teaching qualifications).

Post by Richard Magrath
6. Is it true that unis look favourably upon people who've done some
real world work since their undergraduate degree, as they are less
likely to treat it as a doss?

I think it can help, particularly if the employment is in a related field so
gives you more background. In my case I worked as a unversity research
assistant before registering to do a PhD, and that porevious research
expereicne certainly helped me get the PhD place.

Post by Richard Magrath
and the most important one
7. Do they give you a topic to research, or do you choose one
yourself? I would guess the former, given what I've heard about them
interviewing candidates and so on, but on the other hand I remember
someone here (I think it was JHP) saying that he had to talk some
students out of doing overly-ambitious work for their PhD and into
something more manageable.

If you're prepared to pay your own way, they'd probably let you research
almost anything you like so long as there's an academic who knows enough
about it to supervise. If you're fitting into some established research
team, you're likely to be a bit more limited. However, the natire of
research is that you go off and do your own stuff, it's very likely to
deviaet from what you started off doing.

Matthew Huntbach

[Timmy]

Post by Richard Magrath
While I'm here, and my computer is working, I thought I might take
this opportunity to ask a few questions about postgraduate stuff that
have been on my mind. I would ask my Director of Studies, but I'm
afraid he might think I'm jumping the gun somewhat.
1. How much does a PhD cost? Would it be possible to live *and* pay
off the fees with a combination of an AHRB grant and money made from
tutoring and whatnot?
2. Could I change subject? For example, could I do historical research
after an English degree? Could I become a marine biologist?
3. Would I need a first?

Depends on where you are applying, and whether you are applying for
funding. I think usually a 2:1 will suffice. Funding will only be
given to the best candidates though. Take a look on www.jobs.ac.uk for
funded post grad degrees.

When I applied for my research degree, they looked at degree grade,
references (1 academic) and relevant work experience. So it's not just
degree grade...

Post by Richard Magrath
4. Would I have to do a M.A. or (1-year) M.Phil. first?
5. Is a PhD only useful for an academic career? Or would it help me
get a job as a museum curator, BBC programme researcher, Master of a
public school, etc.?

Help maybe, depends on what the person interviewing you is looking
for. Most public school headmasters (that I have come across) have
Cambridge MAs for some strange reason!

Post by Richard Magrath
6. Is it true that unis look favourably upon people who've done some
real world work since their undergraduate degree, as they are less
likely to treat it as a doss?

I think it would only help if the work was relevant to the degree, for
example a person working as a programmer, would obviously have gained
experience relevant to a PhD in computer science.

[Chris Share]

Post by Timmy
Help maybe, depends on what the person interviewing you is looking
for. Most public school headmasters (that I have come across) have
Cambridge MAs for some strange reason!

To be fair, a Cambridge MA means nothing - well, nothing beyond the BA.
It merely means that you graduated from your BA, and haven't brought
shame upon the University by being arrested or something.

chris

[Stuart Williams]

Post by Timmy
Help maybe, depends on what the person interviewing you is looking
for. Most public school headmasters (that I have come across) have
Cambridge MAs for some strange reason!

You need to get out more!

see, e.g.,

www.shrewsbury.org.uk/staff.htm

http://www.stpaulsschool.org.uk/page.aspx?id=8288

http://www.stowe.co.uk/staff/index.html


SW

[Alun Harford]

Post by Stuart Williams
http://www.stpaulsschool.org.uk/page.aspx?id=8288
http://www.stowe.co.uk/staff/index.html

Were you trying to argue *for* him, or what?
:-)

Alun

[Stuart Williams]

In article <cgno6a$jmm$***@hercules.btinternet.com>, ***@yahoo.com
says...

Post by Alun Harford

Post by Stuart Williams
http://www.stpaulsschool.org.uk/page.aspx?id=8288
http://www.stowe.co.uk/staff/index.html

Were you trying to argue *for* him, or what?
:-)
Alun

Only slightly: he forgot about the Oxford MAs <ducks punch from Huntbach>

Seriously though, there's plenty of ex-Exes, Londons of various sorts,
Newcastles, Durhams, Birminghams, Loughboroughs and so on.

SW

[Toby]

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:31:14 +0100, Stuart Williams

Post by Stuart Williams
says...

Post by Alun Harford

Post by Stuart Williams
http://www.stpaulsschool.org.uk/page.aspx?id=8288
http://www.stowe.co.uk/staff/index.html

Were you trying to argue *for* him, or what?
:-)
Alun

Only slightly: he forgot about the Oxford MAs <ducks punch from Huntbach>
Seriously though, there's plenty of ex-Exes, Londons of various sorts,
Newcastles, Durhams, Birminghams, Loughboroughs and so on.
SW

I assume you accepted your Oxford MA, so when do you become
Marrrrrrhhhrsssta? ;D

[Stuart Williams]

Post by Toby
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:31:14 +0100, Stuart Williams

Post by Stuart Williams
says...

Post by Alun Harford

Post by Stuart Williams
http://www.stpaulsschool.org.uk/page.aspx?id=8288
http://www.stowe.co.uk/staff/index.html

Were you trying to argue *for* him, or what?
:-)
Alun

Only slightly: he forgot about the Oxford MAs <ducks punch from Huntbach>
Seriously though, there's plenty of ex-Exes, Londons of various sorts,
Newcastles, Durhams, Birminghams, Loughboroughs and so on.
SW

I assume you accepted your Oxford MA, so when do you become
Marrrrrrhhhrsssta? ;D

Not so much Accepted, more Paid For (in 1987 or so). Haven't we had this
before - that the Oxbridge MA is a hangover from the medieval university,
where the BA was an intermediate degree, and the assumption was you would
merit the MA without further teaching simply by virtue of
acquiring/practising your skills in Arithmetic, Geometry, Music and
Astronomy, (which I have, assiduously)?

SW

[Toby]

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:49:49 +0100, Stuart Williams

Post by Stuart Williams

Post by Toby
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:31:14 +0100, Stuart Williams

Post by Stuart Williams
says...

Post by Alun Harford

Post by Stuart Williams
http://www.stpaulsschool.org.uk/page.aspx?id=8288
http://www.stowe.co.uk/staff/index.html

Were you trying to argue *for* him, or what?
:-)
Alun

Only slightly: he forgot about the Oxford MAs <ducks punch from Huntbach>
Seriously though, there's plenty of ex-Exes, Londons of various sorts,
Newcastles, Durhams, Birminghams, Loughboroughs and so on.
SW

I assume you accepted your Oxford MA, so when do you become
Marrrrrrhhhrsssta? ;D

Not so much Accepted, more Paid For (in 1987 or so). Haven't we had this
before - that the Oxbridge MA is a hangover from the medieval university,
where the BA was an intermediate degree, and the assumption was you would
merit the MA without further teaching simply by virtue of
acquiring/practising your skills in Arithmetic, Geometry, Music and
Astronomy, (which I have, assiduously)?
SW

Yes, there's still a (very) well-researched article from the annals of
AUA on Google somewhere about why this happens, I think in answer to
JHP (where is the Prof., hmmm?!)...I reckon it's cool, and since
anyone in a position to judge C.V.s etc. knows of them, there's no
problem...But yes, they are a little dodgy :P

Toby
Will pay top dollar

[David Haardt]

Post by Richard Magrath
While I'm here, and my computer is working, I thought I might take
this opportunity to ask a few questions about postgraduate stuff that
have been on my mind. I would ask my Director of Studies, but I'm
afraid he might think I'm jumping the gun somewhat.
1. How much does a PhD cost? Would it be possible to live *and* pay
off the fees with a combination of an AHRB grant and money made from
tutoring and whatnot?

The ESRC pays £10500 plus fees outside London, £12500 plus fees in
London. The other research councils and the AHRB pay similar amounts.
In that sense, yes, it's definitely possible to lead a modest but
still enjoyable student's life from that money.

David Haardt

[Chris Share]

Post by Richard Magrath
While I'm here, and my computer is working, I thought I might take
this opportunity to ask a few questions about postgraduate stuff that
have been on my mind. I would ask my Director of Studies, but I'm
afraid he might think I'm jumping the gun somewhat.

I'll see what I can answer, but bear in mind this is based on science
(mainly chemistry) PhD students I know.

Post by Richard Magrath
1. How much does a PhD cost? Would it be possible to live *and* pay
off the fees with a combination of an AHRB grant and money made from
tutoring and whatnot?

AHRB = Arts and Humanities research board?

It's possible to live and pay fees etc with an EPSRC research grant,
just about. Supervising helps a lot.

Post by Richard Magrath
2. Could I change subject? For example, could I do historical research
after an English degree? Could I become a marine biologist?

Depends on the subjects in question.... I know several people doing
different PhDs from their first degree, but all related - a chemist
doing a materials PhD, a compsci doing an engineering PhD.

Post by Richard Magrath
3. Would I need a first?

No, but it helps.

Post by Richard Magrath
4. Would I have to do a M.A. or (1-year) M.Phil. first?

This is bound to be different from what I know - scientists wanting to
stay on will do Part III and come out with an MSci anyway. I'm pretty
sure an MPhil is just a shorter version of a PhD though.

Post by Richard Magrath
5. Is a PhD only useful for an academic career? Or would it help me
get a job as a museum curator, BBC programme researcher, Master of a
public school, etc.?
6. Is it true that unis look favourably upon people who've done some
real world work since their undergraduate degree, as they are less
likely to treat it as a doss?

Again, with sciences everyone goes straight from undergrad into a PhD,
pretty much. There are a few people who work for a few years before, but
not many. I suspect it may well be different with Arts subjects, though.

Post by Richard Magrath
and the most important one
7. Do they give you a topic to research, or do you choose one
yourself? I would guess the former, given what I've heard about them
interviewing candidates and so on, but on the other hand I remember
someone here (I think it was JHP) saying that he had to talk some
students out of doing overly-ambitious work for their PhD and into
something more manageable.

With science ones, in general supervisors have a list of topics their
group is working on, and you'd be expected to choose from something on
there. However, there is a lot of flexibility. And of course if you spot
something in the process of investigating one thing that turns out to be
more interesting than the original topic, you can study further on
whatever seems like a good idea.

chris

[Richard Magrath]

Thanks for the help, everyone!

Richard