Discussion:
mirror sentences
(too old to reply)
adam
2004-08-19 16:30:52 UTC
Permalink
"I should, shouldn't I?"

the second half is a mirror image of the first, except that it is the
opposite.

can anyone think of any others?

adam
Robert de Vincy
2004-08-19 16:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by adam
"I should, shouldn't I?"
the second half is a mirror image of the first, except that it is the
opposite.
can anyone think of any others?
Well.......
I can't, can I?
--
BdeV
Jon
2004-08-19 18:04:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert de Vincy
I can't, can I?
The fact you chose that rather than 'I can, can't I' shows your
negative attitude?
Robert de Vincy
2004-08-19 17:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon
Post by Robert de Vincy
I can't, can I?
The fact you chose that rather than 'I can, can't I' shows your
negative attitude?
Or a liking of self-contradictory situations and paradoxes.

They're the spice of life. Forget variety; these are much cooler.
--
BdeV
Alex Warren
2004-08-19 17:21:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon
Post by Robert de Vincy
I can't, can I?
The fact you chose that rather than 'I can, can't I' shows your
negative attitude?
It does, does it?


Alex
Ray Pang
2004-08-19 21:33:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Warren
Post by Jon
Post by Robert de Vincy
I can't, can I?
The fact you chose that rather than 'I can, can't I' shows your
negative attitude?
It does, does it?
Alex
Surely "It does, doesn't it?"?
Becky Loader
2004-08-19 23:12:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Pang
Post by Alex Warren
It does, does it?
Surely "It does, doesn't it?"?
Not necessarily. I guess you can say it just instead of 'really?' or 'does
it?' when seeking confirmation of something. perhaps indicating some
suspicion or being a bit sarky.

"My hoover not only does the hoovering, but also mows the grass and feeds
the dog."
"Oh, it does, does it?"

Becky
Ray Pang
2004-08-21 13:59:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Becky Loader
Post by Ray Pang
Post by Alex Warren
It does, does it?
Surely "It does, doesn't it?"?
Not necessarily. I guess you can say it just instead of 'really?' or 'does
it?' when seeking confirmation of something. perhaps indicating some
suspicion or being a bit sarky.
"My hoover not only does the hoovering, but also mows the grass and feeds
the dog."
"Oh, it does, does it?"
Becky
Yeah I understood that it made sense. It just didn't follow the rule of
being a mirror except being the opposite.
John Porcella
2004-08-19 19:22:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by adam
"I should, shouldn't I?"
the second half is a mirror image of the first, except that it is the
opposite.
So are you stating that they are the same, except they are not?
Post by adam
can anyone think of any others?
I could, couldn't I?
--
MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella
Dave
2004-08-19 21:00:43 UTC
Permalink
"Dave spots a theme..."

I would, wouldn't I?
aonghus heatley
2004-08-20 08:33:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave
"Dave spots a theme..."
"I do, don't I?"

And also - one that's probably not unique to my locality...

"I am, am't I"
Ian/Cath Ford
2004-08-20 08:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by aonghus heatley
Post by Dave
"Dave spots a theme..."
"I do, don't I?"
And also - one that's probably not unique to my locality...
"I am, am't I"
It is, innit.

He did, didn't he etc etc etc

Ian
--
Ian, Cath, Eoin & Calum Ford
The view from Beccles

I loved the words you wrote to me/But that was bloody yesterday

No e-mail address. If you want to talk to me then talk here to start with and we can go back to your place later...
Chris Higham
2004-08-22 12:07:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by adam
"I should, shouldn't I?"
the second half is a mirror image of the first, except that it is the
opposite.
can anyone think of any others?
Thought about training to be an English teacher adam?
Robert de Vincy
2004-08-22 12:15:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Higham
Post by adam
"I should, shouldn't I?"
the second half is a mirror image of the first, except that it is the
opposite.
can anyone think of any others?
Thought about training to be an English teacher adam?
Hmm... I don't think that one quite works.
--
BdeV
adam
2004-08-22 13:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert de Vincy
Post by Chris Higham
Post by adam
"I should, shouldn't I?"
the second half is a mirror image of the first, except that it is the
opposite.
can anyone think of any others?
Thought about training to be an English teacher adam?
Hmm... I don't think that one quite works.
Thought about training to be an English teacher adam teacher English an be
to training about thought?

No, I think you are right.

But,

It gave me an idea.

Any mirror sentences with more than 4 words?

Actually more than 5, cos 5 is easy.

It would be, wouldn't it?

Cos you just need to stick a single word in the middle of the ones we
already have.

It's also funny the way we read, cos I can read the first half of that
sentence above really quicky, but when it comes to the second half, I have
to slow down and read each word slowly.

adam
Robert de Vincy
2004-08-22 19:45:01 UTC
Permalink
adam did write:

[...]
Post by adam
But,
It gave me an idea.
Any mirror sentences with more than 4 words?
Actually more than 5, cos 5 is easy.
It would be, wouldn't it?
Cos you just need to stick a single word in the middle of the ones we
already have.
Getting more than five words is incredibly tricky because the basic way
all the examples so far have worked is by playing on the fact that they
have reverse polarity tags stuck on the end. RPol tags are used as
"neutral" question tags to provoke confirmation of the idea being expressed.
(Notice how a constant polarity tag [where the second 'part' is not the
negative of the first] seeks to challenge the idea being expressed -- see
Alex Warren's first reply in this thread for an example of a CPol tag in
action... or in Acton!)

To get a RPol tag in English, usually four steps are necessary:
1. Turn the sentence into a question that can be answered with "Yes" or
"No".
Example:
Declarative: Fred has just eaten a pizza. ==>
Yes-no question: Has Fred just eaten a pizza?
2. Switch the polarity.
Example:
Has Fred just eaten a pizza? ==>
Hasn't Fred just eaten a pizza?
3. Delete everything except the subject and the auxiliary.
Example:
Hasn't Fred?
4. If necessary, replace the subject noun-phrase with its proform.
Example:
Hasn't he?

Add this tag to the original sentence, and...
"Fred has just eaten a pizza, hasn't he?"

Step 1 is okay for your Mirror Sentence condition, since the act of
making an interrogative from a declarative involves (in effect) reversing
the positions of subject and verb ("I would" ==> "Would I?").

Step 2 is also okay for your Mirror Sentence condition because it reverses
the polarity, thus creating your "except that it is the opposite" feature
("I would, would I?" ==> "I would, wouldn't I?")

However step 3 just messes everything up if you go beyond the simple
Subject+AuxiliaryVerb format, because you have to delete everything else
to make the tag but still keep all that stuff for the 'declarative' part
at the beginning.

It works for "I would" and "I can" and "You are" etc because these already
have anything past the Subject and Auxiliary Verb deleted, so when it
comes to step 3 there's no change to see.

And it works for "It would be, wouldn't it?" because "wouldn't it?" is the
result of the four steps described above applied to "It would be". Equally,
any three word sentence in which the first word is a pronoun and the
second word is an auxiliary will work, because the third word (the lexical
word, the 'description' of the action you're talking about) stays in the
middle and doesn't require a copy of itself anywhere else to make the whole
thing palindromic.

But that's not to say that thinking up a 6+ word example is 100%
impossible... there are enough idiomatic phrases in English to push the
boundaries of every 'rule' and generalization.
--
BdeV
adam
2004-08-22 19:55:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert de Vincy
[...]
Post by adam
But,
It gave me an idea.
Any mirror sentences with more than 4 words?
Actually more than 5, cos 5 is easy.
It would be, wouldn't it?
Cos you just need to stick a single word in the middle of the ones we
already have.
Getting more than five words is incredibly tricky because the basic way
all the examples so far have worked is by playing on the fact that they
have reverse polarity tags stuck on the end. RPol tags are used as
"neutral" question tags to provoke confirmation of the idea being expressed.
(Notice how a constant polarity tag [where the second 'part' is not the
negative of the first] seeks to challenge the idea being expressed -- see
Alex Warren's first reply in this thread for an example of a CPol tag in
action... or in Acton!)
1. Turn the sentence into a question that can be answered with "Yes" or
"No".
Declarative: Fred has just eaten a pizza. ==>
Yes-no question: Has Fred just eaten a pizza?
2. Switch the polarity.
Has Fred just eaten a pizza? ==>
Hasn't Fred just eaten a pizza?
3. Delete everything except the subject and the auxiliary.
Hasn't Fred?
4. If necessary, replace the subject noun-phrase with its proform.
Hasn't he?
Add this tag to the original sentence, and...
"Fred has just eaten a pizza, hasn't he?"
Step 1 is okay for your Mirror Sentence condition, since the act of
making an interrogative from a declarative involves (in effect) reversing
the positions of subject and verb ("I would" ==> "Would I?").
Step 2 is also okay for your Mirror Sentence condition because it reverses
the polarity, thus creating your "except that it is the opposite" feature
("I would, would I?" ==> "I would, wouldn't I?")
However step 3 just messes everything up if you go beyond the simple
Subject+AuxiliaryVerb format, because you have to delete everything else
to make the tag but still keep all that stuff for the 'declarative' part
at the beginning.
It works for "I would" and "I can" and "You are" etc because these already
have anything past the Subject and Auxiliary Verb deleted, so when it
comes to step 3 there's no change to see.
And it works for "It would be, wouldn't it?" because "wouldn't it?" is the
result of the four steps described above applied to "It would be".
Equally,
Post by Robert de Vincy
any three word sentence in which the first word is a pronoun and the
second word is an auxiliary will work, because the third word (the lexical
word, the 'description' of the action you're talking about) stays in the
middle and doesn't require a copy of itself anywhere else to make the whole
thing palindromic.
But that's not to say that thinking up a 6+ word example is 100%
impossible... there are enough idiomatic phrases in English to push the
boundaries of every 'rule' and generalization.
awesome answer!

maybe a good trick would be to use quote marks.

"adam, mr said poo", said mr adam.

hmmm, tho not a mirror cos there is no opposite, but i think we can relax
that mirror rule, since i made it up, i shall un-make it.

adam

Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...