Are all Computing Departments Like This?

[Stuart Williams]

Somehow, this sounds strangely familiar......

www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-1211997,00.html

SW

[Matthew Huntbach]

Post by Stuart Williams
Somehow, this sounds strangely familiar......
www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-1211997,00.html

I would be more interested to know is it just Computing departments that are
like this, or are Computing departments more likely to be like this than
other departments.

Matthew Huntbach

[Stuart Williams]

Post by Matthew Huntbach

Post by Stuart Williams
Somehow, this sounds strangely familiar......
www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-1211997,00.html

I would be more interested to know is it just Computing departments that are
like this, or are Computing departments more likely to be like this than
other departments.
Matthew Huntbach

Is there no kind of web ring, or whatever, for computing lecturers?

SW

[Dr A. N. Walker]

Post by Matthew Huntbach
I would be more interested to know is it just Computing departments that are
like this, [...].

No, every word [OK, I exaggerate] of Alan's article resonates
with me as well. It's extremely hard to get a class to remain quiet;
indeed, to become quiet enough to get started [and I *refuse* to talk
over a background of chattering]. I used to go in with a pin, and
pantomime trying to hear it drop; no longer works. As Alan says, it
isn't the whole class; it's just a handful, who are often unpopular
with the rest. Students drift in 10+ mins late; in my time as an
undergrad, you would not have dared arrive in the lecture room after
the lecturer. All the stuff about arriving ill-prepared at problems
classes and tutorials equally applies here.

OTOH, I'm not sure it greatly bothers me. As individuals, our
students are *really* *nice* people, almost without exception. They
are bright, enthusiastic [tho' not always about maths], caring, ...;
their families should be proud of them. [What they are like at the
weekend and in the city centre is perhaps a different matter.] Our
traditional lectures, tutorials, etc., are, TBH, particularly stupid
ways to try to impart information [were it not that all the others are
worse]. The exam system is crazy [perhaps ditto]. *Of course* they
want to attend problem classes, if at all, conveniently next to a
lecture, in preference to having weird hours splatted over the week.
And whereas my lectures were all in the one building, theirs are
dotted across campus and beyond, sometimes with twenty minutes travel
to cope with in the ten minutes between lectures [or five minutes by
the time I've stopped rabbiting on, and the crowd at the front has
finished picking up handouts, leaving enough room for those at the
back to escape and make their way through crowded corridors].

As for chattering in lectures, partly this is a habit learned
at school -- and we encourage it during problem classes. But I think
that primarily it's a consequence of the video age. They can chat
while watching TV, so they do it while watching me. If they miss
something at home, they can re-wind and see it again; and they can
fast-forward through the boring bits. I think it comes as a surprise
to them that they can't re-wind or fast-forward me.

We are steadily shifting from the "lecturer as god" style of
university, with students sitting at our feet trying to pick up crumbs
of knowledge from the master [not that that worked particularly well
either] to the "university as department store" style, with customers
paying [not yet enough] to be taught things as and when they want to
be taught. I don't think there's any point bemoaning this, or harking
back to a mythical Golden Age; the world has moved on. The challenge
for universities -- and for education in general -- is to adapt to the
new style.

[Stuart Williams]

In article <cfft3t$rik$***@oyez.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>, ***@maths.nott.ac.uk
says...

Post by Dr A. N. Walker
As for chattering in lectures, partly this is a habit learned
at school --

Not in my classes - they chatter when I want them to and stop when I want
them to (unless it's Friday period 9).

SW

[Ant]

Post by Stuart Williams
Somehow, this sounds strangely familiar......
www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-1211997,00.html

Hmm.. I want to read this but when I click the link I get to an error page
saying that I havent allowed cookies. I've set up IE6 so as to allow all
1st and 3rd party cookies so I've no idea why I can't access it, is there
another way of getting to this article, I couldn't see it on the front part
of the education section.

[Max Power]

Post by Ant

Post by Stuart Williams
Somehow, this sounds strangely familiar......
www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-1211997,00.html

Hmm.. I want to read this but when I click the link I get to an error page
saying that I havent allowed cookies. I've set up IE6 so as to allow all
1st and 3rd party cookies so I've no idea why I can't access it, is there
another way of getting to this article, I couldn't see it on the front part
of the education section.

Top marks for minimal effort
Alan Clements
With A-level results imminent, this university professor says
the expanding student population is lowering standards of behaviour



I AVOID going home when the kids are leaving school. If I'm on
my bicycle, I expect abuse from some children I pass as they stream out.
Recently, a schoolboy cycled past me and spat in my face. Although academics
have traditionally been spared such gross examples of bad behaviour,
universities are part of the real world and trends developing in schools are
slowly infiltrating higher education.
I'm a professor of computer science at the University of
Teesside in Middlesbrough. I became a lecturer because I enjoy explaining to
students how a handful of components, so simple that a child could
understand how they work, can be interconnected to create a machine that can
beat a human at chess or fly the European Airbus.



Over the years, the number of people in higher education has
increased dramatically and the Government has expressed its intention to
continue this trend and ensure that 50 per cent of school leavers experience
higher education. Faced with such a dramatic expansion, it's natural to ask
whether academic standards are getting better. You bet they are. My best
students have never been better.

If the best students are getting better, then is all well? Not
entirely; the expansion in higher education means that the spread of
abilities is wider than it once was and, at the same time, some of the
changes in the behaviour of young people have had a negative impact on
higher education.

Most students are still well behaved and want to get good
degrees. However, there has been a noticeable decline in behaviour. For
example, it takes a lot of effort to stop students eating and drinking in
labs - food and computers don't go well together.

Similarly, punctuality has declined, with some students casually
drifting into lectures long after they have started. Noise can be a major
problem when students in large classes fill the air with chatter. It's
almost as if students are using modes of conduct more appropriate to the
living room than the lecture theatre.

Bad behaviour is not universal and can be the cause of severe
friction between different groups of students. A growing number at
universities such as Teesside are so-called mature students. Often they have
worked for a few years and decided they want a better life. A typical mature
student is a woman who has brought up children and wants to resume her
education.

Nothing highlights the difference between traditional and
non-traditional mature students more than noise; chatter comes largely from
students who have arrived directly from school.

Non-traditional students are fiercely proud of their second
chance to get a higher education; they are enthusiastic, listen to every
word you say and are a delight to teach. Sometimes these students come close
to threatening their younger, more frivolous comrades. The non-traditional
student is often the teacher's best ally when it comes to maintaining a
stable and active learning environment.

Students probe the limits of their freedom in many ways. I teach
a first-year course on "computer architecture", which is about the internal
operation and organisation of the microprocessor. This is an intricate and
technically demanding subject, so I intersperse the lecture with comments
about the history of computing or even tell a story about the way a pilot
saved his aircraft from disaster because he understood the details of the
aircraft's control systems.

One year, a student got up and said: "Clements, cut the personal
reminiscences and get on with the job you're paid to do." Only last
semester, a student complained to the course representative that I was too
chatty. When I told the class that I would no longer talk about the history
of the computer industry and would concentrate only on computer design, I
got e-mails from students dissociating themselves from the complaint and
telling me how much they enjoyed my insights into the computer industry.
Even so, I would look around the class and wonder which student made the
complaint.




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[Ian/Cath Ford]

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:42:05 GMT, "Max Power"

Post by Max Power
Top marks for minimal effort

That's only the first page of the article though :-)

There's one more and a couple of paragraphs on the third page.

I recignised the sort of shift that I've seen at sixth form level in
some of this - essentially a greater reliance on spoon feeding. Not
nice.

Ian
--
Ian, Cath, Eoin & Calum Ford
The view from Beccles

I loved the words you wrote to me/But that was bloody yesterday

No e-mail address. If you want to talk to me then talk here to start with and we can go back to your place later...

[Adam]

Post by Ian/Cath Ford
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:42:05 GMT, "Max Power"

Post by Max Power
Top marks for minimal effort

That's only the first page of the article though :-)
There's one more and a couple of paragraphs on the third page.
I recignised the sort of shift that I've seen at sixth form level in
some of this - essentially a greater reliance on spoon feeding. Not
nice.

I think universities should demand more from their students.

Not necessilary 'spoon feed' them stuff, but tell them they need to go out
and learn stuff and set deadlines and assessed coursework for it.

Even coursework which is worth only a small amount towards the mark for the
course, gets done, and non-assessed work gets left until revision, or not at
all.

Maybe I'm just incredibly lazy and hence a bad example, but I certainly
think having more assessed coursework would have forced me to work harder
for myself over the past few years.

Teachers can complain about students wanting to be spoon fed like they were
at school, but isn't it the teacher's job to inspire and encourage learning,
rather than just sit there as a resource to be used when only the naturally
enthuastic students want to learn?

adam

[Matthew Huntbach]

Post by Adam

Post by Ian/Cath Ford
I recignised the sort of shift that I've seen at sixth form level in
some of this - essentially a greater reliance on spoon feeding. Not
nice.

I think universities should demand more from their students.
Not necessilary 'spoon feed' them stuff, but tell them they need to go out
and learn stuff and set deadlines and assessed coursework for it.
Even coursework which is worth only a small amount towards the mark for the
course, gets done, and non-assessed work gets left until revision, or not at
all.

Indeed. This seems to be the case even if you tell the students "the only
way you will learn this stuff is by doing it, these exercises are set so
that you will learn, in fact they are the main way you will learn this
stuff".

Post by Adam
Maybe I'm just incredibly lazy and hence a bad example, but I certainly
think having more assessed coursework would have forced me to work harder
for myself over the past few years.

The problem with assessed coursework is that most students will just
plagiarise. I've given up setting assessed computer programming coursework
because I know what will happen is a small number of students will actually
work through it, most will find a friend who's done it and copy that
friend's work. When you question then about it they will say "We worked
together" (i.e. my friend did it, and I looked over his shoulder), or "I
based it on his, but it's my own work" (i.e. I made a few cosmetic changes
like renaming the variables in order to disguise the fact it's a straight
copy).

Post by Adam
Teachers can complain about students wanting to be spoon fed like they were
at school, but isn't it the teacher's job to inspire and encourage learning,
rather than just sit there as a resource to be used when only the naturally
enthuastic students want to learn?

How? I find I beg and plead with the stuents to take the work seriously,
tell them that every year large numbers fail because they didn't, tell them
that the only way to learn it is to do the coursework and treat it as a full
time job i.e. put 10 hours a week into each of their four course units, and
*still* most of them seem to take the approach that they can put off all
study and work until a week before the exams, "revise" like hell (i.e.
attempt to rote memorise stuff they don't understand) then and somehow
they'll pass.

Matthew Huntbach

[Adam]

Post by Matthew Huntbach

Post by Adam

Post by Ian/Cath Ford
I recignised the sort of shift that I've seen at sixth form level in
some of this - essentially a greater reliance on spoon feeding. Not
nice.

I think universities should demand more from their students.
Not necessilary 'spoon feed' them stuff, but tell them they need to go out
and learn stuff and set deadlines and assessed coursework for it.
Even coursework which is worth only a small amount towards the mark for the
course, gets done, and non-assessed work gets left until revision, or not at
all.

Indeed. This seems to be the case even if you tell the students "the only
way you will learn this stuff is by doing it, these exercises are set so
that you will learn, in fact they are the main way you will learn this
stuff".

Post by Adam
Maybe I'm just incredibly lazy and hence a bad example, but I certainly
think having more assessed coursework would have forced me to work harder
for myself over the past few years.

The problem with assessed coursework is that most students will just
plagiarise. I've given up setting assessed computer programming coursework
because I know what will happen is a small number of students will actually
work through it, most will find a friend who's done it and copy that
friend's work. When you question then about it they will say "We worked
together" (i.e. my friend did it, and I looked over his shoulder), or "I
based it on his, but it's my own work" (i.e. I made a few cosmetic changes
like renaming the variables in order to disguise the fact it's a straight
copy).

Post by Adam
Teachers can complain about students wanting to be spoon fed like they were
at school, but isn't it the teacher's job to inspire and encourage learning,
rather than just sit there as a resource to be used when only the naturally
enthuastic students want to learn?

How? I find I beg and plead with the stuents to take the work seriously,
tell them that every year large numbers fail because they didn't, tell them
that the only way to learn it is to do the coursework and treat it as a full
time job i.e. put 10 hours a week into each of their four course units, and
*still* most of them seem to take the approach that they can put off all
study and work until a week before the exams, "revise" like hell (i.e.
attempt to rote memorise stuff they don't understand) then and somehow
they'll pass.

I'm no expert (or maybe I am ... being a student and exposed to lots of
learning), but I can tell you the best lecturers I've had haven't been for
the most interesting subjects, they have been the most entertaining and
energetic speakers. It's the same in maths as well as computing.

So to get students exicted about the subject, the lecturer needs to be
exicted about teaching it. Walk around, change the tone of your voice, wave
your hands about. One of my worst lecturers did the opposite of all three,
he'd stand in the corner in front of his computer, speak in the most
monotonous voice possible, and ... well ... stand still. Needless to say I
fell asleep each time, not because I wanted to, but because it was *really*
hard to stay awake.

As for getting people to do tutorial work, all I know is more assessed work
would work *for me*, and I would imagine there are more people like me out
there. Most of my friends (who work harder than I do) do the assessed work
during term, and unassessed work in the lead up to revision.

adam

[Ian/Cath Ford]

Post by Adam
I think universities should demand more from their students.
Not necessilary 'spoon feed' them stuff, but tell them they need to go out
and learn stuff and set deadlines and assessed coursework for it.

*I* think sixth form teachers should expect more from their students.
As it happens, I also think GCSE and KS3 teachers should expect more
form their students. The problem is that far too many dpn't seem to -
they spoon feed because that ensures that the kiddies have the stuff
they need to learn and if they learn it they'll pass. They don't have
to think, so no-one really teaches them to think; they don't really
have to work independently, so no-one teaches them how to.

The problems start to appear at A2 when there are really quite complex
thingsbeing dealt with which essentially require you to go and find
stuff out and read some. You can get by without doing lots, but you
won't usaulyl do well at it, unless you're darned clever. Porblem is
that immediately someone like me says "go find that out" or "here are
some page references you really need to look at" a minority of small
munchkins do it, the majority don't and another minority complain to
someone that I'm not giving them all they need to pass.

Post by Adam
Even coursework which is worth only a small amount towards the mark for the
course, gets done, and non-assessed work gets left until revision, or not at
all.
Maybe I'm just incredibly lazy and hence a bad example, but I certainly
think having more assessed coursework would have forced me to work harder
for myself over the past few years.

Hmmm, coursework. WE do some at A2 (as well as AS). I had, wat, 16
A2 kids this last year (somewhere about that). Lets see, hmmm,
basically 3 or 4 of them went away and really went for the coursework.
They did well. Others: left it anf left it and left it and then
wondered if they could have time off lessons to do it and then
wondered whether I could help them. Sure - but if I declared it on
the form they'd have been marked down.

CW can help - it can really inspire if you can take something
interesting and go for it. The A2 piece can really be like that. But
still I get the same 3 or 4 kids really doing it properly and the
others wanting to be given the references and th research on a plate.
No ta.

Post by Adam
Teachers can complain about students wanting to be spoon fed like they were
at school, but isn't it the teacher's job to inspire and encourage learning,
rather than just sit there as a resource to be used when only the naturally
enthuastic students want to learn?

Absoslutely. Love to inspire. Love to be enthusiastic, to talk about
really cool stuff. Then I get complaints that I'm not giving them all
the stuff they need. This, fwiw, is why I don't intend to teach at A
Level in the immediatte term - I'm not enjoying it.

Which perhaps explains the ranting a bit :-)

Ian
--
Ian, Cath, Eoin & Calum Ford
The view from Beccles

I loved the words you wrote to me/But that was bloody yesterday

No e-mail address. If you want to talk to me then talk here to start with and we can go back to your place later...

[Dave]

Would it not be better have more interviews before a student starts a sixth
form or university course. If everything goes well on thursday, I am soon to
be starting a course involving computers (intrnet technologies unless I
change my mind & transfer to a similar course) and would much prefer to be
mixed with a bunch of civilised students than a load of "scallies" who got
into the university by bending the truth in their UCAS statements and tutor
reports. In adition to this, univesities should request more specific AS/A2
achievements... Some of the computer-based courses I have looked at only
require a minimum of 2 C grade A Levels in any subject!

As for tutors, Being still and monotonous is as bad as being eerily excited
about the subject from a students point of view. From the article linked to
in an earlier post, real-life stories are refreshing from a course as long
as they are not numerous to the run up to exams.

[Stuart Williams]

Post by Dave
Would it not be better have more interviews before a student starts a sixth
form or university course.

Yes, but no-one at universities (outside Oxbridge and a handful of
departments elsewhere) can spare the resources to do so.

Post by Dave
If everything goes well on thursday, I am soon to
be starting a course involving computers (intrnet technologies unless I
change my mind & transfer to a similar course) and would much prefer to be
mixed with a bunch of civilised students than a load of "scallies" who got
into the university by bending the truth in their UCAS statements and tutor
reports.

No, they will have got there by the same route you took: on the basis of
their grades, on the whole. The fact that they don't know how to behave
won't be evident from personal statement, reference or A level results.

Post by Dave
In adition to this, univesities should request more specific AS/A2
achievements... Some of the computer-based courses I have looked at only
require a minimum of 2 C grade A Levels in any subject!

Do you mean "more specific" or just "higher"? If the latter, you need to
ask yourself why universities /daren't/ set the requirements any higher:
As Matthew H says, universities are on the whole crying out for students:
their funding suffers if they don't fill their places.

Post by Dave
As for tutors, Being still and monotonous is as bad as being eerily excited
about the subject from a students point of view. From the article linked to
in an earlier post, real-life stories are refreshing from a course as long
as they are not numerous to the run up to exams.

I've read that sentence three times now and I'm still puzzled as to what
you mean.

SW

[Ian/Cath Ford]

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:50:27 +0100, Stuart Williams

Post by Stuart Williams

Post by Dave
Would it not be better have more interviews before a student starts a sixth
form or university course.

Yes, but no-one at universities (outside Oxbridge and a handful of
departments elsewhere) can spare the resources to do so.

To be honest, some schools still have grade requirements fr sixth form
courses - Cs or Bs generally minimum - but this can only really work
in an area where there is an over-supply of students. Most of the
time if you have a fairly regular pulse we can find you a course,
often A Levels. If we starte seriously interviewing and selecting on
anything other than having a minimal brain we'd go out of business -
sixth formers are worth serious money.

And to be more honest, it's often the A students at GCSE who fall
apart at A Level because they only got the A through spoon feeding.

<snippage>

Post by Stuart Williams

Post by Dave
As for tutors, Being still and monotonous is as bad as being eerily excited
about the subject from a students point of view. From the article linked to
in an earlier post, real-life stories are refreshing from a course as long
as they are not numerous to the run up to exams.

I've read that sentence three times now and I'm still puzzled as to what
you mean.

I think it means, I don't mind hearing stories at the start of the
course but not when you're drilling me for an exam.

Ian
--
Ian, Cath, Eoin & Calum Ford
The view from Beccles

I loved the words you wrote to me/But that was bloody yesterday

No e-mail address. If you want to talk to me then talk here to start with and we can go back to your place later...

[Stuart Williams]

In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@privacy.net
says...

Post by Ian/Cath Ford
To be honest, some schools still have grade requirements fr sixth form
courses - Cs or Bs generally minimum - but this can only really work
in an area where there is an over-supply of students. Most of the
time if you have a fairly regular pulse we can find you a course,
often A Levels. If we starte seriously interviewing and selecting on
anything other than having a minimal brain we'd go out of business -
sixth formers are worth serious money.
And to be more honest, it's often the A students at GCSE who fall
apart at A Level because they only got the A through spoon feeding.

Well, maybe. Our experience is that it's the marginal ones (6 or 7 Cs)
who can't cope. All our grade A/A* tend to get B/A at A level. Or maybe
we just carry on spoonfeeding them, if you believe the research.

Stuart

[Ian/Cath Ford]

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:37:00 +0100, Stuart Williams

Post by Stuart Williams

Post by Ian/Cath Ford
And to be more honest, it's often the A students at GCSE who fall
apart at A Level because they only got the A through spoon feeding.

Well, maybe. Our experience is that it's the marginal ones (6 or 7 Cs)
who can't cope. All our grade A/A* tend to get B/A at A level. Or maybe
we just carry on spoonfeeding them, if you believe the research.

The 6/7 Cs cope sometimes - the ones who really work - do the things I
would have expected to do at sixth form I guess, can come out with
lots of credit. Theymay only get Cs or Ds (or Bs), but that's good
credit. Some will crash and burn - depends upon application more than
anything.

As for the As/A*s, yes, they may get Bs - but really, if they've
gotten a bunch of A*s at GCSE is Bs acceptable? Shouldn't they be the
As? OK, Bs are good - but it annoys me when kids who could do
**really** well end up doing OK and getting by based on AS performance
but never really getting to grips with A2 because they wont do the
work.

Ian
--
Ian, Cath, Eoin & Calum Ford
The view from Beccles

I loved the words you wrote to me/But that was bloody yesterday

No e-mail address. If you want to talk to me then talk here to start with and we can go back to your place later...

[Ray Pang]

Post by Ian/Cath Ford
As for the As/A*s, yes, they may get Bs - but really, if they've
gotten a bunch of A*s at GCSE is Bs acceptable? Shouldn't they be the
As? OK, Bs are good - but it annoys me when kids who could do
**really** well end up doing OK and getting by based on AS performance
but never really getting to grips with A2 because they wont do the
work.
Ian

Couldn't it be argued that it's just a refelction of the difference between
GCSEs and A-level? You wouldn't expect all straight A students at A-level to
go on to get first class degrees at top universities because university is a
different kettle of fish.

[Stuart Williams]

In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@privacy.net
says...

Post by Ian/Cath Ford
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:37:00 +0100, Stuart Williams

Post by Stuart Williams

Post by Ian/Cath Ford
And to be more honest, it's often the A students at GCSE who fall
apart at A Level because they only got the A through spoon feeding.

Well, maybe. Our experience is that it's the marginal ones (6 or 7 Cs)
who can't cope. All our grade A/A* tend to get B/A at A level. Or maybe
we just carry on spoonfeeding them, if you believe the research.

As for the As/A*s, yes, they may get Bs - but really, if they've
gotten a bunch of A*s at GCSE is Bs acceptable? Shouldn't they be the
As?

Yes, I meant that kids who get mainly A's at GCSE will tend to get a
mixture of A's and B's at A level. The more A*'s you get, the more top
grades you get at A level.

SW

[Matthew Huntbach]

Post by Dave
Would it not be better have more interviews before a student starts a sixth
form or university course. If everything goes well on thursday, I am soon to
be starting a course involving computers (intrnet technologies unless I
change my mind & transfer to a similar course) and would much prefer to be
mixed with a bunch of civilised students than a load of "scallies" who got
into the university by bending the truth in their UCAS statements and tutor
reports.

Unfortunately, it's not possible to tell in an interview who is the
"civilised student" and who is the "scally". One of the reasons I've cut down
on interviews in the Computer Science department where I'm admissions tutor
is that I was getting very little useful information from them. In order to
interview most applicants, it's necessary to drag in most of the academic
staff in the department to do it, and a lot of them are resentful at being
dragged away from their and don't seem to have much of an idea of what
questions to ask to really assess a student. I think I, as someone who's
done the admissions tutor job for some time and actually has an interest in
it, can make a much better assessement of an applicant from a UCAS form than
some member of staff who's sitting there thinking "What should I say?" and
"When is this going to be over so I can go back to my research?". I can
assure yoy that I am very well used to reading between the lines in UCAS
statements.

Post by Dave
In adition to this, univesities should request more specific AS/A2
achievements... Some of the computer-based courses I have looked at only
require a minimum of 2 C grade A Levels in any subject!

Let me let you into a secret - if they are only asking for two C grades the
reality is that they will probably take absolutely anything. It is common
for the stated grades asked for to be a lot higher than the department will
really take at.

Of course, *every* department would really like to take only high-grade
conscientious hard-working students. But the reality is that there are only
a small number of such students about and a much larger number of university
places to fill. What do you think would happen to a university department
that had the capacity for 100 students but decided only to take 10 on the
grounds that it wanted to be more specific about AS/A2 achievements? Answer
- it would be closed down as not economically viable and its staff would be
made redundant.

Post by Dave
As for tutors, Being still and monotonous is as bad as being eerily excited
about the subject from a students point of view. From the article linked to
in an earlier post, real-life stories are refreshing from a course as long
as they are not numerous to the run up to exams.

I think what we really want are students who want to learn and thus don't
come to lectures expecting to be entertained.

Matthew Huntbach

[Rachel]

Trust me - I'm a doctor....

Congratulations on sproglet no. 2

[Toby]

Post by Rachel
Trust me - I'm a doctor....
Congratulations on sproglet no. 2

'Tab New Hall Rachel? :P

[Rachel]

Post by Toby

Post by Rachel
Trust me - I'm a doctor....
Congratulations on sproglet no. 2

'Tab New Hall Rachel? :P

yes

[Robert de Vincy]

Post by Toby

Post by Rachel
Trust me - I'm a doctor....
Congratulations on sproglet no. 2

'Tab New Hall Rachel? :P

yes

Really?

[Toby]

Post by Robert de Vincy

Post by Toby

Post by Rachel
Trust me - I'm a doctor....
Congratulations on sproglet no. 2

'Tab New Hall Rachel? :P

yes

Really?

This could go on forever...

[Robert de Vincy]

Post by Toby

Post by Robert de Vincy

Post by Toby

Post by Rachel
Trust me - I'm a doctor....
Congratulations on sproglet no. 2

'Tab New Hall Rachel? :P

yes

Really?

This could go on forever...

Do you think so?

[Toby]

Post by Robert de Vincy

Post by Toby

Post by Robert de Vincy

Post by Toby

Post by Rachel
Trust me - I'm a doctor....
Congratulations on sproglet no. 2

'Tab New Hall Rachel? :P

yes

Really?

This could go on forever...

Do you think so?

To Infinity and beyond!!!!!!!!!!!

*smack*

[Ian/Cath Ford]

Post by Rachel
Trust me - I'm a doctor....
Congratulations on sproglet no. 2

Ta - he's cool; how are you?

Ian
--
Ian, Cath, Eoin & Calum Ford
The view from Beccles

I loved the words you wrote to me/But that was bloody yesterday

No e-mail address. If you want to talk to me then talk here to start with and we can go back to your place later...

[Stuart Williams]

In article <cffrii$ot8$***@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>, ***@all.com
says...

Post by Ant

Post by Stuart Williams
Somehow, this sounds strangely familiar......
www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-1211997,00.html

Hmm.. I want to read this but when I click the link I get to an error page
saying that I havent allowed cookies. I've set up IE6 so as to allow all
1st and 3rd party cookies so I've no idea why I can't access it, is there
another way of getting to this article, I couldn't see it on the front part
of the education section.

Go to the Times homepage
Scroll down a bit till you see "In T2 Today" - Sex Games. Click on that
link, and you'll find the article you want is the third on the new page.

SW

[Jeffrey]

I think you have to remember that Middlesbrough is a pretty shitty
place full of chemical plants, large numbers of drugs addicts and
prostitutes. It is also home to some of the cheapest housing in the
country, with properties going for as little as £5,000. The local
people are nicknamed 'smoggies' from all the crap in the air from the
chemical plants. Some of the rival football team supporters have been
known to wear gas masks at the match as a joke.

The university of teesside seems to be near the bottom of all the
league tables I seem to see.

[Adam]

Post by Ant

Post by Stuart Williams
Somehow, this sounds strangely familiar......
www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-1211997,00.html

Hmm.. I want to read this but when I click the link I get to an error page
saying that I havent allowed cookies. I've set up IE6 so as to allow all
1st and 3rd party cookies so I've no idea why I can't access it, is there
another way of getting to this article, I couldn't see it on the front part
of the education section.

Maybe you need 2nd party cookies?

adam

[Matt Johnson]

Post by Stuart Williams
Somehow, this sounds strangely familiar......
www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-1211997,00.html

Interesting article, indeed. I can -- slightly -- see the resonance at
Imperial (the part relating to tutorial attendance really hit home!),
however, fortunately, lectures are nowhere near that unruly.

Here, it is mainly _other students_ that complain if one or two
students start to chat constantly through lectures. From experience, our
lecture halls here are sound-wells; they carry sound well from front to
back, but not vice-versa -- if the lecturer can hear a lot of chatting,
the rest of the students don't have a hope.

- --M

- --
Matt Johnson <***@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Junior Systems Programmer
Computing Support Group

"My kids are into these computer games. They call my mother-in-law an
End of Level Monster!"
- Mike Knowles