Britain speaking German

[Toby]

Americans, it seems,a lways, in an argument about something completely
different, seem to use as an argument 'you'd all be speaking German if
it weren't for us'. Of course I generalise.

My question: is it really that simple/true? I mean, I'm pretty sure
Continental Europe would be, but I seem to remember something called
the Battle of Britain and Hitler deciding not to proceed....Would
Europe have lost the war, allowing Germany to focus on Britain, if
America hadn't finally joined-in, or...?

[Robert de Vincy]

Post by Toby
Americans, it seems,a lways, in an argument about something completely
different, seem to use as an argument 'you'd all be speaking German if
it weren't for us'. Of course I generalise.
My question: is it really that simple/true? I mean, I'm pretty sure
Continental Europe would be, but I seem to remember something called
the Battle of Britain and Hitler deciding not to proceed....Would
Europe have lost the war, allowing Germany to focus on Britain, if
America hadn't finally joined-in, or...?

That sentiment (okay, so it's generalized, but I've heard it in one form
or another too) trivializes the death of 20+ million Russians.

[Toby]

Post by Robert de Vincy

Post by Toby
Americans, it seems,a lways, in an argument about something completely
different, seem to use as an argument 'you'd all be speaking German if
it weren't for us'. Of course I generalise.
My question: is it really that simple/true? I mean, I'm pretty sure
Continental Europe would be, but I seem to remember something called
the Battle of Britain and Hitler deciding not to proceed....Would
Europe have lost the war, allowing Germany to focus on Britain, if
America hadn't finally joined-in, or...?

That sentiment (okay, so it's generalized, but I've heard it in one form
or another too) trivializes the death of 20+ million Russians.

Ahhh cool good point.

[cowboy carl]

Post by Toby

Post by Robert de Vincy

Post by Toby
Americans, it seems,a lways, in an argument about something completely
different, seem to use as an argument 'you'd all be speaking German if
it weren't for us'. Of course I generalise.
My question: is it really that simple/true? I mean, I'm pretty sure
Continental Europe would be, but I seem to remember something called
the Battle of Britain and Hitler deciding not to proceed....Would
Europe have lost the war, allowing Germany to focus on Britain, if
America hadn't finally joined-in, or...?

That sentiment (okay, so it's generalized, but I've heard it in one form
or another too) trivializes the death of 20+ million Russians.

Ahhh cool good point.

But then there is the argument (and I say this with very little knowledge
about the 'facts') that if the Russians had the military power (in terms of
equipment and skills) of the Americans, a lot of those lives wouldn't have
been lost.

That the Russian tactic was just to throw men at the problem, and less
American lives were lost because of superior equipment and better generals.


Several things bug me about the war.

One of them is the huge number of Russian casualities. Related to this, is
something my politics lecturer said last year, which was that if Russia at
the time wasn't all evil and communist, and thus *able* to divert such a
large number of people to fight, and able to build loads of ships and ammo
and stuff (able to cos of the gulags and stuff), then they would have lost.

I dunno how true that is, and whether Russia would have been more productive
under a more 'nice' system of government.

Another of them is the huge number of Chinese casualities, people think of
WWII as a European war, but IIRC almost half the people who died, died in
China.

Also, what *really* bugs me is how WWII is being spun as a war to save the
Jews. Every nation involved was involved only because they considered
themselves under threat. Purely selfish reasons.

Anyway, got my poppy today.

cc

[Ash]

"cowboy carl" <***@lka.ds.mkd> wrote in message news:<***@uni-berlin.de>...

<snipety snip>

Post by cowboy carl
That the Russian tactic was just to throw men at the problem, and less
American lives were lost because of superior equipment and better generals.
Several things bug me about the war.
One of them is the huge number of Russian casualities.

<snip>

Post by cowboy carl
Another of them is the huge number of Chinese casualities, people think

<snip>

Post by cowboy carl
Also, what *really* bugs me is how WWII is being spun as a war to save the
Jews. Every nation involved was involved only because they considered
themselves under threat. Purely selfish reasons.
Anyway, got my poppy today.
cc

Where and when is this being "spun".

You could argue that in _your_ opinion the *Holocaust* is "spun" as
affecting only the Jews, when it affected many minorities. But who
says WW11 was a war to save the Jews?

In actuality, the facts are that WWII was faught *not* to save the
Jews, for the most part! There were many oportunities to save further
Jews (or other minorities e.g. gypsies) from death by bombing the
train lines to Aushwitz, for instance, but the allies (and I'm
refering to England & the USA) didn't despite repeated pleas from
Jewsish groups abroad for the Allies do something, anything.

Besides that, many countries, including England, turned back Jewish
refugees seeking refuge. The only thing England did allow was
shipments of jewish children - the "kindertransports", but they
blocked Jews escaping Nazi Germany to any of their colonies, Palestine
included. There are a horror stories of the way these refugees were
treated, both during the war and after (it was to unqwillingness of
any country to accept these refugees that lead to the creation of
Israel, but let's please not get into this).

--
Ash

[John Porcella]

Post by Robert de Vincy

Post by Toby
Americans, it seems,a lways, in an argument about something completely
different, seem to use as an argument 'you'd all be speaking German if
it weren't for us'. Of course I generalise.
My question: is it really that simple/true? I mean, I'm pretty sure
Continental Europe would be, but I seem to remember something called
the Battle of Britain and Hitler deciding not to proceed....Would
Europe have lost the war, allowing Germany to focus on Britain, if
America hadn't finally joined-in, or...?

That sentiment (okay, so it's generalized, but I've heard it in one form
or another too) trivializes the death of 20+ million Russians.

Which itself could be seen as trivialising the deaths of the millions that
Stalin had killed off.

[John Porcella]

Post by Toby
Americans, it seems,a lways, in an argument about something completely
different, seem to use as an argument 'you'd all be speaking German if
it weren't for us'. Of course I generalise.

And the Americans would be speaking something other than English if it were
not for the British!

Post by Toby
My question: is it really that simple/true? I mean, I'm pretty sure
Continental Europe would be, but I seem to remember something called
the Battle of Britain and Hitler deciding not to proceed....Would
Europe have lost the war, allowing Germany to focus on Britain, if
America hadn't finally joined-in, or...?

Without US supplies, Germany would only have had problems with the Russians.

[Malcolm]

Post by John Porcella

Post by Toby
Americans, it seems,a lways, in an argument about something completely
different, seem to use as an argument 'you'd all be speaking German if
it weren't for us'. Of course I generalise.

And the Americans would be speaking something other than English if it were
not for the British!

Post by Toby
My question: is it really that simple/true? I mean, I'm pretty sure
Continental Europe would be, but I seem to remember something called
the Battle of Britain and Hitler deciding not to proceed....Would
Europe have lost the war, allowing Germany to focus on Britain, if
America hadn't finally joined-in, or...?

Without US supplies, Germany would only have had problems with the Russians.

The original question was whether we would be speaking German? Hitler
quite admired British culture so maybe he would have been happy to let
us speak English. Mayeb it would have been spoken in private as an act
of resistance? Anyway, surely US/Russia would have prevaled (the A
bomb makes that likely). Maybe the US and Russia would have divided
the world at Britain rather than America? Half of us speaking Russian?
The other half spelling colour as color?

If Britain hadn't slowed down the Germans, diverted their attention to
code breaking/radar..., bombed heavy water plants, and provided an
escape route for scientists, would Germany have had the A bomb first?
Maybe we can say to Americans, "if it wasn't for us you'd be speaking
German". Anyway, this is all pure speculation, we did it and we did it
together - thankfully. Wear that poppy with pride.