Admission to uni after narrowly missing grade?

[BWGames]

Hiya all,

I've applied for Electronic Engineering at Nottingham (which wouldn't seem
to be in demand?), and got what seemed to be a low offer (for them) of BCC
(Am predicted B B/C C).
My grandmother's been in hospital for the last few weeks, so I've not
really been able to concentrate on whats happening really in school, so I'm
more confident about getting my insurance offer (Portsmouth, CCC) rather
than BCC (Am doing Maths Physics + Geog)... I know the exams about
2.5months away, but everythings just going whoosh over my head atm
(Although I did do the A2 Phy Geog in Jan, and got 56/90, the entire year
is being remarked for that paper, some have gone up by 16 marks! (haven't
got mine back yet), so alls not lost yet..)

Given the fact that there is apparently a shortage of people doing
Maths/Phy etc, anyone have any idea as to whether they'd still take me?

[cowboy carl]

Post by BWGames
Hiya all,

Hallo,

Post by BWGames
I've applied for Electronic Engineering at Nottingham (which wouldn't seem
to be in demand?), and got what seemed to be a low offer (for them) of BCC
(Am predicted B B/C C).
My grandmother's been in hospital for the last few weeks, so I've not
really been able to concentrate on whats happening really in school, so I'm
more confident about getting my insurance offer (Portsmouth, CCC) rather
than BCC (Am doing Maths Physics + Geog)... I know the exams about
2.5months away, but everythings just going whoosh over my head atm
(Although I did do the A2 Phy Geog in Jan, and got 56/90, the entire year
is being remarked for that paper, some have gone up by 16 marks! (haven't
got mine back yet), so alls not lost yet..)
Given the fact that there is apparently a shortage of people doing
Maths/Phy etc, anyone have any idea as to whether they'd still take me?

It very much depends on, as you say, demand. If they end up filling all
their places and you don't manage to get your grades, then they will
reject you.

Afterall, they can't reject someone who met their required grades, and
they can't invent places.

On the other hand, admissions is not an exact science, and some of the
people who they gave offers to will go to other universities. So it
depends on how many people go to other universities as well.

It's all very complicated and impossible to predict. But there is still
a chance.

I guess it would be wise to contact the admissions tutor at Nottingham
and explain your situationo and see what they have to say.

cc

[Matthew Huntbach]

Post by BWGames
I've applied for Electronic Engineering at Nottingham (which wouldn't seem
to be in demand?), and got what seemed to be a low offer (for them) of BCC
(Am predicted B B/C C).
My grandmother's been in hospital for the last few weeks, so I've not
really been able to concentrate on whats happening really in school, so I'm
more confident about getting my insurance offer (Portsmouth, CCC) rather
than BCC (Am doing Maths Physics + Geog)... I know the exams about
2.5months away, but everythings just going whoosh over my head atm
(Although I did do the A2 Phy Geog in Jan, and got 56/90, the entire year
is being remarked for that paper, some have gone up by 16 marks! (haven't
got mine back yet), so alls not lost yet..)
Given the fact that there is apparently a shortage of people doing
Maths/Phy etc, anyone have any idea as to whether they'd still take me?

If you have reasons why you think your performance might be lower
than could be expected, those reasons will seem a lot more believable
if they're made now, rather than after your exam results come out.
They will also seem a lot more believable if you have some sort of
official backing for your point - so get your school to write to the
universities you have made you Firm and Insurance choice to explain
the situation.

Remember the situation is that you are obliged to go to your Firm choice,
even if you didn't get the grades asked for, if they give you the place
anyway. You only get to go to your Insurance choice if they give you the
place, but your Firm choice rejects you. If your Firm choice rejects
you and your Insurance choice gives you a place, you are obliged to
go to your Insurance choice - you can't shop around for "somewhere
better" in clearing.

As I've said many times in this newsgroup, in my experience as an
admissions tutor it's very often the case that the grades asked
for are considerably higher than the grades at which they will
actually take. The reason for this is that if you ask for high grades
it seems to impress students who are then more likely to make you their
Firm choice.

As you suggest, this is particualrly likely to be the case in subjects
where there is a shortage of suitably qualified applicants - they won't
want to admit their recruitment difficulties by making public the
low grades which actually they are forced to accept in order to fill
their places.

So while I don't have direct experience with either of the departments
you mention, I would not be surprised at all if the real grades at
which they are taking people are well below the grades they make
conditional offers at. In my experience, a conditional offer of "BCC"
actually means they'll take down to CDD, while a conditional offer of
"CCC" means they'll take anyone. It's silly, but if Portsmouth say
asked for "DEE" you'd think "they can't be much good" and wouldn't
have made them your Insurance. Now, of course I may be completely
wrong here and both the university departments you mention may have
so many good applicants that they can fill up with people who made
them Firm/Insurance and got the grades asked for. But if you get
CCC, my advice is don't go out and buy your train ticket to Portsmouth ...

Matthew Huntbach

[Samsonknight]

<snip>

Post by Matthew Huntbach
As I've said many times in this newsgroup, in my experience as an
admissions tutor it's very often the case that the grades asked
for are considerably higher than the grades at which they will
actually take. The reason for this is that if you ask for high grades
it seems to impress students who are then more likely to make you their
Firm choice.
As you suggest, this is particualrly likely to be the case in subjects
where there is a shortage of suitably qualified applicants - they won't
want to admit their recruitment difficulties by making public the
low grades which actually they are forced to accept in order to fill
their places.
So while I don't have direct experience with either of the departments
you mention, I would not be surprised at all if the real grades at
which they are taking people are well below the grades they make
conditional offers at. In my experience, a conditional offer of "BCC"
actually means they'll take down to CDD, while a conditional offer of
"CCC" means they'll take anyone. It's silly, but if Portsmouth say
asked for "DEE" you'd think "they can't be much good" and wouldn't
have made them your Insurance. Now, of course I may be completely
wrong here and both the university departments you mention may have
so many good applicants that they can fill up with people who made
them Firm/Insurance and got the grades asked for. But if you get CCC, my
advice is don't go out and buy your train ticket to Portsmouth ...
Matthew Huntbach

My offer from Edinburgh University was AA or AACE (if you include the other
subjects), till this day I am wondering why I have been given an offer that
I am grateful for of *AA*. Primarily because in my UCAS reference and PS, it
was said that getting an A in A-Level maths is unlikely in one year, and
given that I have spoken to other people that have applied to Edinburgh - of
whom, mostly have got offers of BBC, BCC or at most for comp sci & maths -
ABC!!

It is worrying, because Edinburgh will be my firm choice, and although AA is
possible, I will give it 50/50. Reason being, and as I have stated before
learning maths can be done in a year, developing the neccessary flair for
exams comes with time. Also, it has been stated in my UCAS reference and PS
that a B is realistic.

Personally I would have preferred the AB offer, but I won't complain. So for
now, I hope that the offer given to me is not my real offer, as I would love
to go to my firm choice. If not, I will be very happy with my insurance
choice - whose offer is BB.

I have written to Edinburgh, they haven't replied.

[Samsonknight]

<snip>

Post by Matthew Huntbach
As I've said many times in this newsgroup, in my experience as an
admissions tutor it's very often the case that the grades asked
for are considerably higher than the grades at which they will
actually take. The reason for this is that if you ask for high grades
it seems to impress students who are then more likely to make you their
Firm choice.
As you suggest, this is particualrly likely to be the case in subjects
where there is a shortage of suitably qualified applicants - they won't
want to admit their recruitment difficulties by making public the
low grades which actually they are forced to accept in order to fill
their places.
So while I don't have direct experience with either of the departments
you mention, I would not be surprised at all if the real grades at
which they are taking people are well below the grades they make
conditional offers at. In my experience, a conditional offer of "BCC"
actually means they'll take down to CDD, while a conditional offer of
"CCC" means they'll take anyone. It's silly, but if Portsmouth say
asked for "DEE" you'd think "they can't be much good" and wouldn't
have made them your Insurance. Now, of course I may be completely
wrong here and both the university departments you mention may have
so many good applicants that they can fill up with people who made
them Firm/Insurance and got the grades asked for. But if you get CCC, my
advice is don't go out and buy your train ticket to Portsmouth ...
Matthew Huntbach

My offer from Edinburgh University was AA or AACE (if you include the other
subjects), till this day I am wondering why I have been given an offer that
I am grateful for of *AA*. Primarily because in my UCAS reference and PS, it
was said that getting an A in A-Level maths is unlikely in one year, and
given that I have spoken to other people that have applied to Edinburgh - of
whom, mostly have got offers of BBC, BCC or at most for comp sci & maths -
ABC!!

It is worrying, because Edinburgh will be my firm choice, and although AA is
possible, I will give it 50/50. Reason being, and as I have stated before
learning maths can be done in a year, developing the neccessary flair for
exams comes with time.

Personally I would have preferred the AB offer, but I won't complain. So for
now, I hope that the offer given to me is not my real offer, as I would love
to go to my firm choice. If not, I will be very happy with my insurance
choice - whose offer is BB.

I have written to Edinburgh, they haven't replied.

[BWGames]

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:46:33 +0000, Matthew Huntbach wrote:

<snip>

Post by Matthew Huntbach
As I've said many times in this newsgroup, in my experience as an
admissions tutor it's very often the case that the grades asked
for are considerably higher than the grades at which they will
actually take. The reason for this is that if you ask for high grades
it seems to impress students who are then more likely to make you their
Firm choice.

Thanks for that....
It's strange actually, I thought I mucked the interview up at Nottingham,
and thought I was going to get a BBB offer, whereas at Portsmouth, the
admissions tutor said "I don't usually tell applicants this, but I'm going
to give you an offer now".

I've also applied for Leicester CompSci, where they offered me BBB, yet
they are rated 40th in the Times guide for CS (not that I put much in
league tables to be honest), yet Nottm, who are rated 18th for EEng,
offered me BCC, its that I don't understand. Not that I'm complaining mind
;o), it just increases the pressure to get into Nottm.

Nottingham and Portsmouth were actually my two lowest offers, I wanted to
go to Nottm, so I had to put Ports as insurance. Everywhere else offered
BBB!
Portsmouth has a lovely uni, (albeit not a highly ranked one), but the
citys a bit in the middle of no-where.
I really wanted to go to London, but mother vetoed that on cost :(

Post by Matthew Huntbach
If your Firm choice rejects
you and your Insurance choice gives you a place, you are obliged to
go to your Insurance choice - you can't shop around for "somewhere
better" in clearing.

Thats interesting, thanks. When I heard about Imperial offering places in
clearing for CompSci last year of CCC, I almost withdrew application and
re-submitted it... Is that the kind of situation you were referring to,
lack of applicants?

Post by Matthew Huntbach
As you suggest, this is particualrly likely to be the case in subjects
where there is a shortage of suitably qualified applicants - they won't
want to admit their recruitment difficulties by making public the
low grades which actually they are forced to accept in order to fill
their places.

Is there any way to find out what the ra nge of UCAS points, of the
applicants that a uni actually took, compared to what they offered? I'd
guess not...

Thanks.

[Matthew Huntbach]

Post by BWGames

Post by Matthew Huntbach
As I've said many times in this newsgroup, in my experience as an
admissions tutor it's very often the case that the grades asked
for are considerably higher than the grades at which they will
actually take.

I've also applied for Leicester CompSci, where they offered me BBB, yet
they are rated 40th in the Times guide for CS (not that I put much in
league tables to be honest), yet Nottm, who are rated 18th for EEng,
offered me BCC, its that I don't understand. Not that I'm complaining mind
;o), it just increases the pressure to get into Nottm.

An offer of BBB may well just mean "our rivals are offering BBB, so
we're certainly not going to go below them". The problem is that
if CS in Leicester offers BCC, but CS somewhere else offers BBB, you're
going to make that somewhere else Firm and Leicester Insurance, aren't
you? So Lecicester may lose a good applicant purely because it made
a more realistic offer.

Post by BWGames

Post by Matthew Huntbach
If your Firm choice rejects
you and your Insurance choice gives you a place, you are obliged to
go to your Insurance choice - you can't shop around for "somewhere
better" in clearing.

Thats interesting, thanks. When I heard about Imperial offering places in
clearing for CompSci last year of CCC, I almost withdrew application and
re-submitted it... Is that the kind of situation you were referring to,
lack of applicants?

Yes, if Imperial is really taking people into CS with CCC that shows
how dire the situation has become. I didn't see CS at Imperial listed
in the Clearings listings last year, but I wouldn't think it unlikely
for a few low late offers to have been made if they needed to fill up.
Imperial also has tne London effect whcih you mentioned. I find almost
all my UK students are from London and living at home - it's almost
impossible to get students from elsewhere in the UK to come to London
to study. I susepct part of the reason for the rise in favour of places
like Nottingham and Warwick is that accommodation costs there are low.

The problem with Computer Science is that there was a boom a few years
ago, so universities expanded their Computer Science departments
because it seemed an easy way to get good students. This was followed
by a collapse in applications - mine are now about half what they
were five years ago - so there are a lot of places to fill and not
enough applicants. If departments that used to take AAA are taking
CCC, then departments that used to take CCC are left with nothing
to give places to but those who barely scraped through.

Matthew Huntbach

[BWGames]

Post by Matthew Huntbach
An offer of BBB may well just mean "our rivals are offering BBB, so
we're certainly not going to go below them". The problem is that
if CS in Leicester offers BCC, but CS somewhere else offers BBB, you're
going to make that somewhere else Firm and Leicester Insurance, aren't
you? So Lecicester may lose a good applicant purely because it made
a more realistic offer.

A very valid point, I hadn't thought of that.
In my case, I got higher offers from the majority than I thought I'd get
(offered BBB), so I was kinda stuck with Nottm/Ports.
It depends a lot on what offers you are given I suppose, as to the choices
you have.

Post by Matthew Huntbach
Yes, if Imperial is really taking people into CS with CCC that shows
how dire the situation has become. I didn't see CS at Imperial listed
in the Clearings listings last year, but I wouldn't think it unlikely
for a few low late offers to have been made if they needed to fill up.
Imperial also has tne London effect whcih you mentioned. I find almost
all my UK students are from London and living at home - it's almost
impossible to get students from elsewhere in the UK to come to London
to study. I susepct part of the reason for the rise in favour of places
like Nottingham and Warwick is that accommodation costs there are low.

Yeah, thats understandable. I actually wanted to go to London for uni, but
mother said if she was gonna pay for accomodation, I wasn't going to
London. Then she turned round and told me to get a student loan, after I'd
put UCAS in (annoyingly!), otherwise I would have investigated London more.

Post by Matthew Huntbach
The problem with Computer Science is that there was a boom a few years
ago, so universities expanded their Computer Science departments
because it seemed an easy way to get good students. This was followed
by a collapse in applications - mine are now about half what they
were five years ago - so there are a lot of places to fill and not
enough applicants. If departments that used to take AAA are taking
CCC, then departments that used to take CCC are left with nothing
to give places to but those who barely scraped through.

Interesting... I wonder if the same applies to Electronic Engineering...
Problem is the uni's are rarely going to admit it :(

[Dr A. N. Walker]

Post by BWGames
I've also applied for Leicester CompSci, where they offered me BBB, yet
they are rated 40th in the Times guide for CS (not that I put much in
league tables to be honest), yet Nottm, who are rated 18th for EEng,
offered me BCC, its that I don't understand.

You really can't compare the two. It may well be that ElecEng
has, as a subject and for historical reasons, a realistic offer level,
but CompSci hasn't. There are also issues of supply and demand.

[...] The problem is that
if CS in Leicester offers BCC, but CS somewhere else offers BBB, you're
going to make that somewhere else Firm and Leicester Insurance, aren't
you?

If you want to go to Somewhere Else, then sure. But if you
prefer Leicester, then is it not more sensible to make Leicester
Firm and use your insurance elsewhere [or not at all]? And then it
is SE that loses out [as they should].

Crudely, it *should* be the case that better univs make
stiffer offers than worse univs. Unfortunately, the public mind
associates stiffer offers with excellence, so some univs have
*become* excellent by making stiffer offers. Whether this works
long term, in cases that cannot be justified objectively, is a
moot point. But it is a least a very subject-specific thing,

[...] I susepct part of the reason for the rise in favour of places
like Nottingham and Warwick is that accommodation costs there are low.

Well, two separate effects. Places like Nottingham and
Warwick have risen in favour not only against London but also
against [eg] Manchester, Bristol, Newcastle, .... In other
words, over the past 10-15 years, there has been a genuine shift
in the pecking order, in which some universities have done well
and others badly. How far this reflects quality is not really
for me to say. May be worth noting that in the past universities
were ranked almost entirely according to *age*; that has changed
-- not least, perhaps, because of the ending of the binary divide.

Separately, London [fairly specifically] has done badly
in recent years among UK-based but non-London students. Not so
much that Nott'm is cheap, but because London in general, not
just accommodation, is so darned expensive. And then there's
the travelling .... Almost all our students live within walking
range of the campus; so do quite a lot of the staff. Unless
it's changed very dramatically in the last two or three years,
I don't think I'd *want* to live within walking range of QMUL;
and I couldn't *afford* to live within walking range of IC.

[Matthew Huntbach]

Post by Dr A. N. Walker

Post by BWGames
I've also applied for Leicester CompSci, where they offered me BBB, yet
they are rated 40th in the Times guide for CS (not that I put much in
league tables to be honest), yet Nottm, who are rated 18th for EEng,
offered me BCC, its that I don't understand.

You really can't compare the two. It may well be that ElecEng
has, as a subject and for historical reasons, a realistic offer level,
but CompSci hasn't. There are also issues of supply and demand.

Yes, at one time CS degrees had far more applicants per place than EE
degrees, so could ask for higher grades. The difference in demand may
have dropped a bit recently, but I think it's still there. I think it
may be the case that CS departments are reluctant to drop their offer
levels in response to the drop in demand, hence they remain quite a
way above what is now the real acceptance level. Possibly also EE
degrees *have* to ask for Maths and Physics A-levels whereas CS
degrees can be more flexible over subjects, so EE are forced to go
lower because they can't weigh up grades against subjects as CS can.

Post by Dr A. N. Walker

[...] The problem is that
if CS in Leicester offers BCC, but CS somewhere else offers BBB, you're
going to make that somewhere else Firm and Leicester Insurance, aren't
you?

If you want to go to Somewhere Else, then sure. But if you
prefer Leicester, then is it not more sensible to make Leicester
Firm and use your insurance elsewhere [or not at all]? And then it
is SE that loses out [as they should].

In my experience, it doesn't work like that. There are few students
whose preference for a particular university is so strong that they
will want to go there even if they have been led to believe by offer
levels that somewhere else is "better".

Post by Dr A. N. Walker
Crudely, it *should* be the case that better univs make
stiffer offers than worse univs. Unfortunately, the public mind
associates stiffer offers with excellence, so some univs have
*become* excellent by making stiffer offers.

Yes, that's the point I'm getting at. In a tight competition for good
students, offering BBB rather than BCC means you get the student.

Post by Dr A. N. Walker
Whether this works
long term, in cases that cannot be justified objectively, is a
moot point. But it is a least a very subject-specific thing,

Maybe it's a London thing, and the sort of competition I'm describing
isn't seen so much elsewhere. I've found that few students have much
of a fixed attachment to any university institution, and so will
readily seize on the idea that whichever gives them the highest offer
must be the "best" and hence will make that their Firm choice.

Post by Dr A. N. Walker
Separately, London [fairly specifically] has done badly
in recent years among UK-based but non-London students. Not so
much that Nott'm is cheap, but because London in general, not
just accommodation, is so darned expensive. And then there's
the travelling .... Almost all our students live within walking
range of the campus; so do quite a lot of the staff. Unless
it's changed very dramatically in the last two or three years,
I don't think I'd *want* to live within walking range of QMUL;
and I couldn't *afford* to live within walking range of IC.

Increasingly I'm finding my students at QMUL *do* live within walking
distance, or at least a short tube/bus journey. Certainly in my
department a big proportion of the students are Asian East-Enders.

However, the area around QMUL has become increasingy yuppified in
recent years. You might not want to live there, but plenty of people
do. It now counts as City fringes, much more expensive than south-east
London where I live, or the outer parts of east London.

Matthew Huntbach

[John Porcella]

Post by Matthew Huntbach
However, the area around QMUL has become increasingy yuppified in
recent years. You might not want to live there, but plenty of people
do. It now counts as City fringes, much more expensive than south-east
London where I live, or the outer parts of east London.
Matthew Huntbach

I have recently been driven past the QM site and the area is definitely
up-and-coming. Perhaps the Docklands Light Railway and the Canary Wharf
Development has helped.

[Matt Johnson]

Post by BWGames
Thats interesting, thanks. When I heard about Imperial offering places in
clearing for CompSci last year of CCC, I almost withdrew application and
re-submitted it... Is that the kind of situation you were referring to,
lack of applicants?

I am not the absolute fount of all knowledge on this, but I am pretty
sure that we (Computing at Imperial) didn't enter clearing in '04. (In
fact I don't think we've entered clearing in any year in recent memory!)

i.e. 'CCC' for an Imperial Computing entrant sounds **highly**
implausible.

- --Matt

- --
Matt Johnson <***@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Junior Systems Programmer
Computing Support Group

"Computers come in two varieties: The Prototype, and The Obsolete."
- Anon

[BWGames]

Post by Matt Johnson
I am not the absolute fount of all knowledge on this, but I am pretty
sure that we (Computing at Imperial) didn't enter clearing in '04. (In
fact I don't think we've entered clearing in any year in recent memory!)
i.e. 'CCC' for an Imperial Computing entrant sounds **highly**
implausible.

Interesting...
I heard it somewhere; maybe I was wrong, sorry.

[Dr A. N. Walker]

Post by Matthew Huntbach

Post by BWGames
Given the fact that there is apparently a shortage of people doing
Maths/Phy etc, anyone have any idea as to whether they'd still take me?

If you were asked for BCC but miss "narrowly", you will be
on a short-list of people who, with varying degrees of enthusiasm,
they either want or are prepared to take. If you get AAD, they will
be quite keen; BCD -- probably reasonably happy; CCC -- slightly
less so; CCD [say] -- much less likely, and they might need a fair
bit of arm-twisting. That list goes to the central univ authorities,
specifically the Registrar, who will look at the univ's overall state
and the states of individual departments/courses, and decide how far
down each list to go. That may be "not at all" for the most popular
courses, down to "is the applicant still alive?" in other cases.

Over the last few years, science and engineering generally have
been short of students "at first trawl", so have been able/expected/
required to go a fair way down their lists. But that overall picture
masks a lot of variation. Some engineering courses here have seen 20%+
increases in applications this year, others are down. As part of the
"wider" view, the Registrar may need to decide whether to encourage
"your" course to take very weak students in order to fill up to quota,
or to "transfer" some part of the deficit to other courses with decent
students to spare. He also has to balance HEU students, subject to
govt quotas, against Overseas students, who pay full whack.

So no-one here is able to tell you now what your prospects are
for August. When you get your results, if you have not qualified "as
of right", ring the university; the results service will tell you on
the spot whether you are "in" or "out". The UCAS web site will be able
to give you the same information.

Post by Matthew Huntbach
If you have reasons why you think your performance might be lower
than could be expected, those reasons will seem a lot more believable
if they're made now, rather than after your exam results come out.
They will also seem a lot more believable if you have some sort of
official backing for your point - so get your school to write to the
universities you have made you Firm and Insurance choice to explain
the situation.

Absolutely. Excuses made after results come out will simply
be ignored. We get results on Sunday; almost all decisions are made
Sunday or Monday, plea-bargains on Tuesday, final admin on Wednesday.
By the time you ring on the Thursday, it's all cut-and-dried as far
as we are concerned. Unless there is some really dramatic excuse,
you're wasting your time trying to persuade our help-line [or the
UCAS web site] to change their mind. Get your case in early; then
it will be attached to your file, and will form part of our decision.

[Matthew Huntbach]

Post by Dr A. N. Walker

Post by BWGames
Given the fact that there is apparently a shortage of people doing
Maths/Phy etc, anyone have any idea as to whether they'd still take me?

If you were asked for BCC but miss "narrowly", you will be
on a short-list of people who, with varying degrees of enthusiasm,
they either want or are prepared to take. If you get AAD, they will
be quite keen; BCD -- probably reasonably happy; CCC -- slightly
less so; CCD [say] -- much less likely, and they might need a fair
bit of arm-twisting. That list goes to the central univ authorities,
specifically the Registrar, who will look at the univ's overall state
and the states of individual departments/courses, and decide how far
down each list to go. That may be "not at all" for the most popular
courses, down to "is the applicant still alive?" in other cases.

Interesting, it doesn't work that way at Queen Mary. All that happens
is that I have a quota to hit, and it's up to me who I take who didn't
make the conditional offer in order to meet the quota. No-one from
Registry telling me what to do. Maybe QM is unusual in giving
admissions tutors a completely free rein.

However, we have this year been given a UCAS points level below which
we can't go without getting permission from above. The reason for this
is that the average UCAS points of the students is a factor in league
table positions. At the margins this may mean the odd person with
goodish-grade AVCE ICT is taken on in favour of someone I'd prefer
with weakish science and maths A-levels.

Matthew Huntbach

[a***@maths.nott.ac.uk]

Post by Matthew Huntbach

Post by Dr A. N. Walker
If you were asked for BCC but miss "narrowly", you will be
on a short-list [...]. That list goes to the central univ

authorities,

Post by Matthew Huntbach

Post by Dr A. N. Walker
specifically the Registrar, [...]

Interesting, it doesn't work that way at Queen Mary. All that happens
is that I have a quota to hit, and it's up to me who I take who didn't
make the conditional offer in order to meet the quota.

Oh. Perhaps I wasn't clear. There is an informal guarantee
that depts can fill up to quota; what we need to know is how far
past that we are to go. Some years, that has been, essentially, "not
on your nelly, we already have too many students in total, and anyone
extra will have to be farmed out to a caravan in Skeggie"; even so,
we have always managed to squeeze in anyone we really, *really* want.
But more recently, science and engineering have been broadly under
quota at first trawl, and then it's a matter of priorities. Maths has
usually had better-qualified near-misses than other depts, so I have
been asked to take extra, in preference to [Dept X] taking very weak
students against their will.

Post by Matthew Huntbach
No-one from
Registry telling me what to do. Maybe QM is unusual in giving
admissions tutors a completely free rein.

*Completely* free went out of the window here the year after
my predecessor went 50% over quota [not really his fault]. In a large
dept, that had "interesting" consequences.

Post by Matthew Huntbach
However, we have this year been given a UCAS points level below which
we can't go without getting permission from above.

I think we have one of those, though in grades rather than
points. But it's presumably pitched for CS, so not of any relevance
to maths .... [:-)]

--
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK.
***@maths.nott.ac.uk

[Matthew Huntbach]

Post by a***@maths.nott.ac.uk

Post by Matthew Huntbach
Interesting, it doesn't work that way at Queen Mary. All that happens
is that I have a quota to hit, and it's up to me who I take who
didn't make the conditional offer in order to meet the quota.

Oh. Perhaps I wasn't clear. There is an informal guarantee
that depts can fill up to quota; what we need to know is how far
past that we are to go.

OK, yes we're given a quota and no-one is going to be penalised for
reaching that quota. Guidelines may come through around confirmation
time either stating that we shouldn't go above quota or inviting
us to go above if we can.

In the boom years for Computer Science, the CS department was encouraged
to go way over quota because some of the other departments weren't
coming near hitting theirs. Now we've had a turnaround - recruitment
is looking very healthy in the rest of QM (languages doing well due to
good league table positioning, closure of Chemistry degree and opening
of Business Management degree doing a lot to improve applications, etc)
and CS has both a reduced quota and an instruction not to go above it.
This means that whereas a few years ago the CS department was in a
massive surplus and was subsidising the rest of the college, now we're
just about breaking even.

Post by a***@maths.nott.ac.uk

Post by Matthew Huntbach
No-one from
Registry telling me what to do. Maybe QM is unusual in giving
admissions tutors a completely free rein.

*Completely* free went out of the window here the year after
my predecessor went 50% over quota [not really his fault]. In a large
dept, that had "interesting" consequences.

OK, I guess things would happen if a department went either way over
quota without permission or way under quota while rejecting applicants
who weren't totally unsuitable. I've never come anywhere near going
way over quota unplanned, from our previous discussions maybe it's a CS
peculiarity that conditional offers seem to be universally well above
actual acceptance levels, so even in the boom years I never filled more
than a fraction of my quota with people who had reached the conditional
offer level. Hitting quota is then a matter of how far down you go with
those below the conditional offer level, and how far your prepared to
accept those peculiar late applications that tend to trickle through in
September. At one time I was able to close up shop and take a week or two's
holiday in September, but in the last couple of years I've had to chase
late applicant all through September in order to just about meet
quota as term starts.

Matthew Huntbach

[John Porcella]

Post by BWGames
Hiya all,
I've applied for Electronic Engineering at Nottingham (which wouldn't seem
to be in demand?), and got what seemed to be a low offer (for them) of BCC
(Am predicted B B/C C).
My grandmother's been in hospital for the last few weeks, so I've not
really been able to concentrate on whats happening really in school,

Sorry, but whyever not? Are you being raised by her? If not, concentrate
on your books and you might well find that you are alright!

so I'm

Post by BWGames
more confident about getting my insurance offer (Portsmouth, CCC) rather
than BCC (Am doing Maths Physics + Geog)... I know the exams about
2.5months away, but everythings just going whoosh over my head atm

Do you do much independent study?

Post by BWGames
(Although I did do the A2 Phy Geog in Jan, and got 56/90, the entire year
is being remarked for that paper, some have gone up by 16 marks! (haven't
got mine back yet), so alls not lost yet..)
Given the fact that there is apparently a shortage of people doing
Maths/Phy etc, anyone have any idea as to whether they'd still take me?

If you concentrate on your studies and get the grades, then yes. Do not go
looking for excuses before they are needed.

[Rachel]

Post by John Porcella

Post by BWGames
Hiya all,
I've applied for Electronic Engineering at Nottingham (which wouldn't seem
to be in demand?), and got what seemed to be a low offer (for them) of BCC
(Am predicted B B/C C).
My grandmother's been in hospital for the last few weeks, so I've not
really been able to concentrate on whats happening really in school,

Sorry, but whyever not? Are you being raised by her? If not, concentrate
on your books and you might well find that you are alright!

Are you a troll?

[Stuart Williams]

Post by Rachel

Post by John Porcella

Post by BWGames
Hiya all,
I've applied for Electronic Engineering at Nottingham (which wouldn't

seem

Post by John Porcella

Post by BWGames
to be in demand?), and got what seemed to be a low offer (for them) of

BCC

Post by John Porcella

Post by BWGames
(Am predicted B B/C C).
My grandmother's been in hospital for the last few weeks, so I've not
really been able to concentrate on whats happening really in school,

Sorry, but whyever not? Are you being raised by her? If not, concentrate
on your books and you might well find that you are alright!

Are you a troll?

In a very real sense, yes he is. Unfortunately, the rays
of the morning sun are not sufficient to turn him to
stone. But one can hope.....

These days, I don't bother to comment on Porcella posts
because it makes absolutely no difference to him - he is
incapable of digesting anyone else's arguments and
therefore never adapts or adjusts anything he says, no
matter how intellectually or emotionall inadequate it
may be. Just remember Matthew Huntbach's perceptive
remark to him in a recent discussion: " all you write
here suggests you are a rather stupid man..". That says
everything necessary.

Stuart Williams

[John Porcella]

Post by Rachel

Post by John Porcella

Post by BWGames
Hiya all,
I've applied for Electronic Engineering at Nottingham (which wouldn't

seem

Post by John Porcella

Post by BWGames
to be in demand?), and got what seemed to be a low offer (for them) of

BCC

Post by John Porcella

Post by BWGames
(Am predicted B B/C C).
My grandmother's been in hospital for the last few weeks, so I've not
really been able to concentrate on whats happening really in school,

Sorry, but whyever not? Are you being raised by her? If not, concentrate
on your books and you might well find that you are alright!

Are you a troll?

No. I am a lecturer/trainer and a trainee secondary school teacher. I care
about people doing well and not messing up their futures.

[Rachel]

Post by BWGames

Post by Rachel

Post by John Porcella

Post by BWGames
Hiya all,
I've applied for Electronic Engineering at Nottingham (which wouldn't

seem

Post by John Porcella

Post by BWGames
to be in demand?), and got what seemed to be a low offer (for them) of

BCC

Post by John Porcella

Post by BWGames
(Am predicted B B/C C).
My grandmother's been in hospital for the last few weeks, so I've not
really been able to concentrate on whats happening really in school,

Sorry, but whyever not? Are you being raised by her? If not,

concentrate

Post by Rachel

Post by John Porcella
on your books and you might well find that you are alright!

Are you a troll?

No. I am a lecturer/trainer and a trainee secondary school teacher. I care
about people doing well and not messing up their futures.

Out of interest, what do you lecture and/or train in?

[John Porcella]

Post by Rachel
Out of interest, what do you lecture and/or train in?

As my first serious career was in accountancy, I began training people in
computerised accountancy and lecturing in professional accountancy
examinations. I am now being trained myself to be a business and economics
lecturer for the 14 to 19 age range.

[Stuart Williams]

Post by John Porcella

Post by Rachel
Out of interest, what do you lecture and/or train in?

As my first serious career was in accountancy, I began training people in
computerised accountancy and lecturing in professional accountancy
examinations. I am now being trained myself to be a business and economics
lecturer for the 14 to 19 age range.

Um, isn't this a huge step down, in terms of salary? And
you're training to impart knowledge to secondary-school-
age learners - isn't that called "teaching" rather than
"lecturing"? Sounds grander, but what do I know.

SW